The Wisdom Of Crowds?

[Kromovaracun]

Was interested to see the following article in The Independent:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/british-public-wrong-about-nearly-everything-survey-shows-8697821.html

It seems that the British public actually tends to believe grossly inaccurate things about their society compared to the evidence available. These findings are supported by an earlier survey commissioned by the TUC and carried out by Ipsos-Mori:

http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2013/01/04/benefits-those-who-know-least-oppose-them-the-most

//On average people think that 41% of the entire welfare budget goes on benefits to unemployed people, while the true figure is three per cent.

On average people think that 27% of the welfare budget is claimed fraudulently, while the government's own figure is 0.7%.

On average people think that almost half the people (48%) who claim Jobseeker's Allowance go on to claim it for more than a year, while the true figure is 27.8%.

On average people think that an unemployed couple with two school-age children would get £147 in Jobseeker's Allowance - more than 30% higher than the £111.45 they would actually receive - a £35 over-calculation.

Only 21% of people think that this family with two school-age children would be better off if one of the unemployed parents got a 30 hour a week minimum wage job, even though they would actually end up £138 a week better off. Even those who thought they would be better off only thought on average they would gain by £59.//


Do ABers believe this evidence, or should we continue to place more trust in the 'man on the street' than on evidence deriving from research?

[emmie]

if one looks at the question and responds in whatever manner, others don't like what you say, it's their prerogative after all, however being called stupid, racist, and more doesn't help foster good feelings.

[viv38]

"As usual anybody who wants to try and preserve their country and its culture and identity is called a racist .... truly pathetic."

Baz at 11:29.

WELL SAID BAZ.

[jim360]

Perhaps you could explain, though viv:

-- Why we need to preserve something that it's not even clear ever really existed;
-- Who is threatening it.

Since no-one ever seems to answer this, it's hard not to consider the view of people going on about "this country is under threat" or something about trying to drive the "whites" out as either racism, or paranoia, or just some form of persecution complex anyway.

[naomi24]

jno, Nice try – yet again – but no, I haven’t been out to buy a black kettle. No need. My comment was accurate. It is incredibly silly to assume that people are concerned for no other reason than having immigrants for neighbours. However, that is what Sharingan doubtlessly implied – but thank you – because in retrospect my response didn’t address her ill-informed comment adequately. I should have said it was an insult to other people’s intelligence – particularly those who spend much of their time fighting for the rights of Muslim women – and I should have attributed it to ignorance.

Octavius, I have no idea if there are any statistics – and this conversation has sunk to such depths that I can’t be bothered to search for any that may exist. However, I would say that I do know London very well, and I know what friends, one of whom is head of an inner city London school, another a Cof E priest active in the community – and the city workers of my acquaintance who spend a good number of their lunch breaks at inner city schools helping immigrant children with their English and reading - tell me – but that of course is all anecdotal, so ignore it if you will.

jim, //Why we need to preserve something that it's not even clear ever really existed//

Where have you been living all your life? Take a walk down Green Street in Upton Park – or along the Whitechapel Waste in Tower Hamlets – and see the changes. How do you think the indigenous people of those boroughs, and other areas, feel when they see leaflets glued to lampposts proclaiming Sharia Law zones – or are afraid to walk home for fear of being harassed because they are a woman in a short skirt, or because they are gay? Of course they are worried – and understandably so! But then it would be senseless to ask you to take a look because you have no idea what those areas were like before mass immigration. Leaving that aside then, and moving on to your question aimed specifically at me on personal level, you have hit the nail on the head. I am well aware that my opinions don’t sit well with the so-called liberal – or with those determined to be seen as politically correct – and I consider that rather an accolade – but for any sensible contributor, this shouldn’t be about me and debate here should never sink to the level that this one has. I can hardly be responsible for anyone’s inability to present their case adequately in any area without resorting to personal innuendoes, so I’ll leave you to continue.

[EDDIE51]

I keep on hearing that only the unemployed get housing benefit , even on TV 2 days ago, but in fact 85% of housing benefit recipients are working.

[emmie]

then Eddie that is the media's fault, that information you presented has been posted on here enough times and elsewhere...

[emmie]

and those who post words like racist and colour, where none were mentioned, we were after all talking of statistics, should think themselves lucky they don't actually live in a country where that is the norm. Where racism, overt sexism and religious intolerance happens on a daily basis. where tribal, religious warfare is happening, and millions being killed, not in the UK, but across many countries. that some think expressing concern over high levels of immigration or indeed any kind of comment, is automatically labelled a racist, fascist. Apart from one or two people on AB, no one knows one another, and unlikely to, which quite frankly is just as well.

[Quizmonster]

So, Em, still no evidence to support the claim of yours I queried, I see, despite my providing the evidence you requested as regards mine. Hey ho!

[emmie]

gosh, is this a race, i provided lots of links, most of which seem to have been ignored or told they were wrong, what is the point of posting more, hey ho

[Octavius]

"and the city workers of my acquaintance who spend a good number of their lunch breaks at inner city schools helping immigrant children with their English and reading"

Yes, I know London very well. Is it those people above who have the genuine concerns? Seems like they are working towards integration, so still don't see the issue.

[Gromit]

// and those who post words like racist and colour, where none were mentioned //

That is a bit rich when on the very first page of this long thread you wrote...

// the one thing that the stats do say that in London white people are in the minority //

Besides being incorrect, no one had mentioned colour up to that point.

[Octavius]

"....should think themselves lucky they don't actually live in a country where that is the norm. Where racism, overt sexism and religious intolerance happens on a daily basis. where tribal, religious warfare is happening, and millions being killed, not in the UK, but across many countries."

You put forward a good case for assylum and immigration in the UK.

[Quizmonster]

You did, indeed, provide lots of links, Em. Sadly, not one of them was an answer to the question I put to you. Let me remind you of what that was...
You had referred to (quote) "left wingers on here who bang on about how everything is hunky dory, and that nothing is wrong in Britain at all." I simply asked you for evidence of that.
If what you said is so, you should have had not the slightest difficulty in finding and providing a link to such evidence. But not a bit of it. I do, of course, know why there is no such link and that is the indisputable fact that no AB left-winger has ever "banged on" about any such thing!

[viv38]

Jim, I refer you to Naomi's excellent third para. at 23:45 last night, could not have put it any better! Thank you Naomi.

[Octavius]

viv, what do you know of Green Street in Upton Park and Whitechapel Waste in Tower Hamlets ?

I am one of those indigenous people.

[emmie]

i apologise, i had missed off the important bit from that post, white british it should have said, i did add it in later, i wasn't looking for an argument, but quoting these so called statistics that some seem to revere so much, well stats like people can be wrong, i trust my own counsel, judgement on most things, and when it fails i look to someone else for help, or not.

[emmie]

as to knowing this place, yes i do pretty well, as you would say, or not, one of the so called indigenous people.

[jim360]

Well, not in Tower Hamlets anyway.

[Octavius]

Interesting em10, where did you grow up then?

[emmie]

why do you want to know. and would it help anything.