It's Ramadamadingdong, A Pretty Brutal One This Year....

[ToraToraTora]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/shortcuts/2013/jul/10/ramadan-10-things-to-know
The Guardian has helpfully supplied 10 things to know including why it's ok to refer to it as above! My main question though is, why do they still use the Al Haraj calandar? Surely having everything moving back by 11 days a year is an inconvenience. If they matched the real calandar then Ramadan would be September much more sensible for fasting in daylight hours.

[EDDIE51]

The entire Muslim religion is based on phases of the Moon . The Al haraj calender is Lunar based , changing it would mean giving up the entire religion.
All Muslim nations also recognise the western calender , they have to if they want to be part of the rest of the world. I worked in Saudi for 3 years and we had both calenders. Used the western one for all business and technical reasons .

[sp1814]

ToraToraTora

Yep...pretty nasty this week especially. I always thought that Muslims were allowed to drink water during the day - but not so.

[mushroom25]

the hijri calendar and its moving events only really became an issue for those observing ramadan as populations migrated outside of the tropic lines - regardless of time of year the day in mecca (21degrees north) is never longer than 14 hours.

[LazyGun]

Pity to the poor muslims attempting to fast between sun-up and sun-down in northern Sweden and Finland etc, where the "daytime" is often 20 plus hours - I think I read somewhere that Ramadan 2015 in those same areas, the day will effectively be 24 hours long- no idea how they will cope then....

[trt]

'' Pity to the poor muslims attempting to fast between sun-up and sun-down in northern Sweden and Finland etc, where the "daytime" is often 20 plus hours ''

I would change religion!

[EDDIE51]

There are limits to the 'ramadan' fast times , above and below certain latitudes there are time limits set , this to to cope with the situation Lazygun mentions.
Otherwise at the North pole you would fast for the entire month 24 hours a day when Ramadan was in the summer or not fast at all in winter.

[sp1814]

I've been looking for a religion which needs no effort on my part whatsoever.

Still looking.

[ToraToraTora]

In that situation lG the local imam declares when the sun in "down".

[EDDIE51]

TTT the 'local iman' has nothing to do with it , sunset / sunrise times for the various parts of the world are decided by authorities in Mecca Saudi Arabia.
The actual start of Ramadan depends on the physical sighting of the Moon from the Grand Mosgue in Mecca , if it is cloudy and the Moon can not be sighted then Ramadan is delayed for 24 hours until the Moon is actually seen. The same applies to the end of Ramadan and all other Muslim festivals , Eid and the rest.
One of the years I was in Saudi Ramadan was 2 days later than expected due to cloudy weather.

[ToraToraTora]

Yes Eddie But I'm talking about in the arctic circle, when it's in the winter, ie potentially months of darkness then I'm told the local imam declares when it's ok to eat. I'm not talking about the official start of ramadan frm Mecca etc.

[mikey4444]

Its up to each and every Muslim to what extent they take part in Ramadam. They don't have to do anything if they don't want to. If they want to fast from smoking, eating and sex, than that sounds OK, but if they need to drink water, then they should do that IF THEY WANT TO !

I was brought up as a Catholic in the 50's and 60's and we were supposed not to eat meat on a Friday, and we had give something up for Lent. I obeyed those "laws" then but I don't now.

Haven't gone to hell yet !

[mikey4444]

sp1814. Need a new religion !

Well, you could try being a Mormon. But you wouldn't be able to drink tea or coffee at all, Ramadam or no Ramadam. I think they frown on masturbation as well.

You could try becoming a Jew, but then you would need to loose part of your willy, which can't be a lot of fun at our age.

You could try Scientology but it would be too expensive, and anyway, you would need to talk complete *** all the time !

Tough finding a new religion isn't it !

[mikey4444]

Keep forgetting about naughty words !...for *** read b**lox !

[mushroom25]

//you would need to loose part of your willy,//

at least then you couldn't take up morris dancing........ :-)

[boxtops]

Other faiths use different calendars too - Jews and the Chinese, for instance. If it's what you're used to, it's not a problem.

Eddie is right that the fast times are set from Saudi - if you are in the Arctic, your times are laid down, even if it's still daylight all night.

[EDDIE51]

T T T as I and boxtops have said , the authorities in Mecca issue the official Ramadan fasting times for the entire world including the Arctic and Antarctic .
A local Iman could not overrule the official word from Mecca, he may clarify or explain it but he can not issue his own timetable.You have heard wrong
I lived and worked for 3 years in Saudi Arabia and actually instructed Muslims , including females in Laboratory techniques . I had to know all about Ramadan and the fasting times . We used to work from 5am to mid-day in Ramadan to get the work over before the full heat started .

[LazyGun]

Thanks for the info, Eddie and TTT. So, I have read somewhere that at least one Imam describes the muslim religion, without any detectable irony, as "adaptable" and open to change.

If they will accept a decree from mecca, or the ruling of a local imam setting an arbitrary time for sun-up and sun-down so that the faithful can follow their observances in these xtreme geographic latitudes - why not just do that for everyone? Set a 12-hour fast period - say between 9am and 9pm local time, with water as neccessary to quench undue thirst? How much daily privation is needed in order to generate proper spiritual enlightenment?

I know muslims say that the fasting is not the most important part of ramadan - that the whole thing has a spiritual focus, such as making peace, forging anew family relationships, all that malarkey- but the most visible aspect of ramadan is the fasting.

Adapting to change would be the mark of a grown up and tolerant religion.....

[New Judge]

As far as the calendar goes, the Christian Easter is a "variable feast" (though not as variable as Ramadan it has to be said, Easter Sunday being the first Sunday after the first full moon following the vernal equinox).

As to the fasting, I was doing some work today and was involved with a Muslim who was observing the fast. The building we were in was paricularly hot and by about 4pm it was clear he was really struggling and he had another four hours or more to go. I have no religion myself but have respect for everybody else's. But any religion which dictates that its followers must go for fifteen or sixteen hours without water in 30 degrees Centigrade is just plainly ridiculous.