John Kerry Is Now Telling Us In Gruesome Detail About The Chemical Weapons Attack

[ichkeria]

Or is he just a very good liar?
So far he hasn't mentioned the issue of the vote in the UK parliament last night.

Does anyone opposed - for perfectly respectable reasons - to Britain's involvement in any response have a problem with the US and France acting oerhaps alone?

[ichkeria]

Gromit, if you heard John Kerry's speech that theory is simply not plausible, unless as I say you think he is ...

[Gromit]

We went down that road with WMDs. The US were insistant that Iraq had them and would use them. The use said it had all the evidence it needed to justify an invasion. And it was all false. No real evidence. No WMDs. No justification.

Kerry is doing exactly the same thing.

[Gromit]

Kerry: some of what we know will only be released to members of Congress, the representatives of the American people.
That means that some things we do know, we can't talk about publicly.

Rumseld mark II

[Gromit]

Kerry's speech in full:

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/30/20261297-read-secretary-of-state-kerrys-full-speech-condemning-syria-attack?lite

[ichkeria]

Well, as the man himself said, no matter what they say, no matter even what evidence they produce, you will always get some people who will refuse to believe - that's human nature.
In another topic you assert that the civil war is all but over and that the US is concerned now that Assad will win after all, thus bolstering Iran.
I don't know enough about the exact state of the rebels to know whether the rebels really are about to collape: it doesn't sound like it I must say but i don;t really know.
However, if Assad really were to "win" it would simply be back to the status quo as before which if you recall everyone seemed wuite happy with including the US. Also, if the idea really is regime change as you seem to think, and the war is all but won by Assad than we are talking some sort of major war the like of which has always been ruled out beofre and which I am absolutely certain, whatever else may happen, is no way on the cards.
I'm sure though that Iran does loom large in America's thoughts. They seem concerned that if Assad is seen to get away with using these weapons (he's used them at least 15 times this year it seems) then Iran will think it can get away with continuing to build their bomb with impunity.
The Americans didn't start this war (unless you believe that as well!)

[Gromit]

A bad summer for the Syrian rebels:

Rebels lose Homs
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/setback-for-syrian-rebels-as-army-takes-homs-district-8736817.html

Rebels lose Tel Kalakh
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/26/us-syria-crisis-idUSBRE95O0LQ20130626

Rebels lose Qusair
http://news.yahoo.com/syrian-rebels-reeling-loss-qusair-183905526.html

Rebels defect to Government side
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10198632/Syria-disillusioned-rebels-drift-back-to-take-Assad-amnesty.html

[Gromit]

// and the war is all but won by Assad than we are talking some sort of major war the like of which has always been ruled out beofre and which I am absolutely certain, whatever else may happen, is no way on the cards. //

No major war. The US will heavily bomb Government targets, tanks, communications, aljazeera by mistake. Leaving them cripple and an easier target for the rebels to attack.

Rather worryingly, the US have amassed large numbers of troops in Jordan.

[ichkeria]

Yes it was, particularly Qusair, but everything I have read suggests the war is stalemated. The country is now much too fragmented - furthermore, the conflict has now spread to Lebanon.

[ichkeria]

I respect your opinion Gromit. I just happen to think you are probably wrong.

[joeluke]

At first I thought this said John Terry

Must get my eyes tested

[Gromit]

The Syrian rebels were caught by UN inspectors using the nerve agent Sarin in May. That was largely hushed up. If they were using Sarin then, they must have access to chemical weapons.

[ichkeria]

Yes it's widely thought both sides have access to chemical weapons. That was why there was some hesitation before blaming Assad.

Don't think it's quite the same situation as Iraq and WMD. Here you have a situation where a banned weapon has actually been used. What, if anything, you do about it of course is another matter.
Can't the International Police step in and arrest Assad once he's finished off the rebels :-)

[jno]

if both sides have, and use, chemical weapons, what is the point - political or moral - in taking action against one and not the other? It's not as if Britain has anything to gain either way.

[ichkeria]

Because only one side has used them to anything like the degree that the regime has - but who's to say that action wouldn't be taken against the rebels too if they were to use them in any significant way?
But as I understand it they do not possess the heavy artillery necessary to lob the stuff - even if they did possess sufficient quantities of whatever it is.

[Gromit]

I have now been able to watch Kerry's broadcast and I was shocked how flimsy it was. He told a story. We know where the weapons were fired from, we know who controls those areas. We know there was a Syrian Chemical weapons unit there, we know this we know that. But there was no evidence, no proof, no explanation how they know.

It was just the Administrations' word. Frankly, That would be fine if they hadn't been caught out mangling the truth many times before.

[jno]

well, that's what you'd expect, ichkeria: the side with more weapons uses more weapons. But that's to do with money and realpolitik, not morality. Both sides it seems will use them if they have them.

Intervening against the side that uses more weapons seems like a quixotic gesture. The rebels are clearly not innocents; if they come to power it seems more than likely Syria will go the way fo Egypt: Islamist tyranny replacing secular tyranny. Britain has no interesting in either aiding or preventing this. Nor can we in practice ensure that only bad people are killed, or that all battlefield deaths are humane.

We can have no practicable aim in going in, and every reason to stay out.

[FredPuli43]

Kerry's speech wasn't to make us feel guilty. It was to persuade Americans to support action, a bit of a task when they have been embroiled in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[Gromit]

Kerry and Obarmy are pressing the American people hard to persaude them that a war with Syria will be different than Iraq and Afghanistan.

They should just tell them folks that the US will be fight FOR al qaeda this time, not against them.

[naomi24]

^^ Yes indeed.