Us 2Nd Amendment.....clarifcation Please

[ToraToraTora]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24059408
Arrested for "carrying a fire arm openly" - I though that it was concealed fire arms that are not allowed without a permit.

[LazyGun]

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.053.html

[dr b]

From the Wiki,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Florida#Concealed_carry

Anyone lawfully carrying a firearm in a concealed manner, may briefly and openly display the firearm to the ordinary sight of another person, unless the firearm is intentionally displayed in an angry or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense.[8]

Currently, Florida's Concealed Weapon License is one of the most widely-recognized, state-issued concealed weapon license. The resident Florida Concealed Weapon License is recognized in thirty-five different states, while the non-resident Florida Concealed Weapon License is recognized in thirty states.[9]

Open carry

Open carry when on foot in a public area is generally illegal, but is permitted in certain circumstances, as defined by Florida statute 790.25(3). For example, open carry is permitted while hunting, fishing, camping, or while shooting, and while going to and from such activities.[10] The open carry ban statute is currently being challenged in Court[11]

[ToraToraTora]

ok but how come a state law overrides a constitutional right?

[LazyGun]

You might just as well ask how it is that individual states can have their own laws regarding ownership of guns. Its the same kind of thing.

[dr b]

The 2nd amendment states in full: "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

What this means has been debated for 200+ years. A lengthy discussion here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_United_States

[dr b]

Discussion of state vs federal laws here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_the_United_States_%28by_state%29

[dr b]

There are arguments about the amendment only applying to "militia", what it means to "keep" and "bear" arms, ad infinitum/nauseum. Good for the lawyers, anyway.

[Gromit]

The law on openly carrying weapons varies from state to state.

In Florida, it is illegal to display weapons. Concealed weapons are OK!!!

http://www.uslawshield.com/florida/florida-gun-law/

[Clanad]

There's no longer any misunderstanding concerning "militia" in the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. In Heller v. District of Columbia in 2010, the Supreme Court of the U.S. held that there can be no infringement on an individuals right to both keep and bear arms...

An individual State may not infringe upon the individuals right to keep and carry but can set the limits on modes of display... hence the conceal carry permits being issued by most States. Most States conceal carry permits are recognized my adjoining States for convenience, but, Florida and others are accepted in many other States as well.

The advantage of holding a conceal carry in one's home State is that when the holder wishes to purchase a firearm, they are not subject to the required background check (performed by the FBI) since that was already accomplished to hold the conceal carry permit... they are usually time limited to to 3 to 5 yeras...

[humbersloop]

Clanad, are the gun fairs where people seem to be able to buy arms in a fairly unregulated way covered, or does the permit follow the person not the weapon?

[Clanad]

Humber... the gun shows are unregulated as far as buying/selling since it's considered a 'private transaction'. However, just this weekend I bought two rifles at an estate auction in a nearby State and those had to be shipped back to my home State to a Registered Firearms Dealer to be background checked. Although when I got home I showed the Registered dealer my conceal carry permit issued in my home State and the background check was eliminated, since an indepth background check had to be performed before being issued the conceal carry permit.

The concealed carry permit is issued to the individual and applies to any arms he owns...

[humbersloop]

thanks clanad, does the dealer background check the guns as well as the person to confirm the provenance?

two rifles?? bloody hell, I'm scared now...

[Clanad]

Humbersloop, I like old guns, both hand and long... I've a collection of maybe 25 to 30 depending on the latest auctions... including 9 digit serial number Winchester Model 94 30-30 carbine (I'm sure you're properly impressed).

In the case previously described where the two long guns were sent from the auction house, the provenance becomes the responsibility of the auction house who identifies them by serial number, but that data is not collected by the Federal government... thankfully! The real responsibility is the background check and any number of things can be disqualifying. Obviously, a criminal record, but also any record of mental illness. Which is indicative in itself of being impotent since the last several "massacres" involving use of firearms have ALL been the efforts of mentally disturbed individuals. One of the most infamous is the Newtown school shootings. The young man had been treated for severe depression for a number of years. He tried to buy a weapon but was disqualified, whereupon he went to his mother's house, shot and killed her and stole several weapons she had, (legally) and proceeded to murder the kids and teachers at the school.
More importantly, just in the last two weeks, two teen-agers at school were killed and several more were wounded as well as some teachers, by a mentally disturbed teen-ager wielding a knife... If just one individual at that school had been an armed conceal carry permit holder, it could have been stopped.

Several States have in acted laws recently to allow (with proper supervision and qualification) selected teachers to carry weapons at school (or at least have them available).

I'm a commercial pilot and I, along with many of my colleagues across the spectrum of air carriers have qualified for and been granted permission to carry handguns while on duty on the flight deck. The weapons are actually provided by the airline and the tracking process is so complete that, to date, there's not been one weapon lost or misplaced.

Look, in a perfect world, there would be no need for any of this, but it's truly a dangerous place out there and no one but oneself to depend upon for defense not only for myself but my family and others for whom I'm the first line of defense...

[humbersloop]

again, thank you, that's also clarified something about the coverage here of armed staff in your schools that I hadn't appreciated.

Also, yes, systems fail - with terrible consequences. On your more general point, I live in a rural community and gun ownership isn't uncommon at all. I really don't know if it's more or less difficult to get hold of them legally here than with you, I suspect not. I just think there's a culturally grounded difference in attitude towards them that, without being critical at all, is something I can't comprehend.

So, the Winchester's rare and valuable then? ;)