If At First You Don't Succeed.....

[mushroom25]

.....take your bat home.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-24063468

legitimate concern voiced by the kirk? or churchmen just being petty and small-minded?

[EDDIE51]

Legitimate concern, just a few court cases could bankrupt the church.
Seems a good idea to me, civil wedding then an optional church blessing.

[pixie373]

Now it's legal, churches should marry same-sex couples. I don't understand why refusing to do so, doesn't come under discrimination laws?

[ummmm]

I don't think they should be made to. It goes against what the church believes in.

[EDDIE51]

The churches law is The Bible and the prayer book which say that marriage is between a man and a woman. It is one of the most fundamental laws of the church. No matter what the government or the law says that will never change.

[Jeza]

I disagree pixie. I am not against same sex marriage even though I don't like it. I do understand why some religions refuse to do it. I'm not religious either.

[pixie373]

I just don't think the Church should be above the Law, because they believe differently.

[naomi24]

It’s a legitimate concern. The bible specifically forbids sexual relations between people of the same sex. Therefore the church cannot marry them. The law of the land can be changed, but the law of the bible cannot.

[EDDIE51]

The law was always made with a specific clause that churches could not be forced to offer same sex marriage.
So they are not 'above the law' they are just doing what they always said they would and what the law specifically allows.
There are a few churches that will do same sex marriages but the main ones never will no matter what the law, public opinion or the government says.

[Jeza]

I understand that pixie, but if you or I or anyone else believed something was wrong whatever it was we wouldn't do it. We all have opinions and principles.

[Old_Geezer]

If something goes against your belief and the law will force you to do it if you don't get out of the game altogether then it's the only logical step. Using that to jeer about taking bats home isn't a reasonable thing to do.

[bert_h]

The difference is that the Anglican Church has been obliged - by law - to conduct marriages when the couple meet certain statutory requirements of residence and church attendance, so it needs some sort of legal waiver of that in the case of same-sex couples; whereas the Church of Scotland has no legal obligation in any case. I don't understand the Kirk's concern - a legal challenge to it would have even less justification in Scotland than it would have in England.

[EDDIE51]

The law actually discriminates against hetrosexual couples, same sex couples can choose EITHER civil partnership OR marriage, but hetrosexual couples can ONLY choose marriage. The only thing a same sex couple can not have is a religious marriage , they can and do have civil marriages since the law changed.
As The Bible says '' For a man to 'lie' with another man as he does with a woman is an abomination unto God'' there is no way a main stream church will ever conduct a same sex marriage. It would be like asking the police to allow theft and murder.

[naomi24]

It’s not a case of simply believing it’s wrong – the church cannot do it. The bible states quite clearly that homosexuality is – and I quote – ‘an abomination’. Marriage between one man and one woman for the purpose of procreation is a fundamental principle of church doctrine.

[EDDIE51]

Hi naomi, nice to see you and I in full agreement for once :-)

[pixie373]

Should the church not keep up with civilisation then? A couple can get married at 90 without being able to procreate, so that isn't the problem.

[naomi24]

Eddie, I'm surprised you say that. I haven't noticed many occasions where I've disagreed with you.

[Jeza]

Naomi, whilst I agree with everything you say I thought you were a non believer.

[naomi24]

Pixie, good point - but no, the church, like other religious organisations, can't keep up with civilisation because their doctrine is steeped in the past. That's half their problem.

[naomi24]

Jeza, I am a non-believer. I'm speaking from the church's point of view.

[askyourgran]

I agree too. I have no problem about gays living together and having civil partnerships, but marriage is for heterosexual couples. It makes a mockery of a real marriage between couples for the natural procreation children.