Is It Time Life Meant Life?

[ToraToraTora]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/429842/Government-need-to-explain-why-FIVE-lifers-were-free-to-kill-again-demands-Tory-MP

[craft1948]

I thought the EU had ruled against life imprisonment.

[ToraToraTora]

ok give them 200 years then!

[Zeuhl]

/five murderers were able to kill after being released back on to the streets between 2009 and 2012/

/They were among 1,900 criminals handed life sentences who live under supervision in the community./

That's a Recidivism Rate of 0.26%

Why is that considered significant?

[ToraToraTora]

......er because people are dead as a result of it? You and others are always on about the state potentially executing an innocent, well at least 5 innocents are dead because we can't even lock them up! Are you saying it is ok if innocents are slain as along as it's under a certain precentage?

[Zeuhl]

/Are you saying it is ok if innocents are slain as along as it's under a certain precentage? /

Yes
It's called using the Facts TTT
It's how decisions are made in the Grown Up World

It helps us get our priorities right and allocate resources to where they are most needed

Is it bad that 5 people were killed in this way? yes
Is 0.26% percent statistically significant? Probably not compared with other issues
If it was a Recidivism Rate of 26% that would be different

The notion that the percentage doesn't matter because 'one would be too many' is unrealistic and hampers any prioritisation or rational decision making

[sp1814]

I have to hold my hand up and say that I would be quite happy for whole of life sentences to actually be whole of life.

Sometimes in the US, you hear of sentences of 300 years being passed down, and to be honest, that makes me grin a little.

Imprisonment should be partly rehabilitation and partly punishment.

There are some who absolutely cannot be rehabilitated. Some people are simply evil. Part of my taxes goes to pay for stuff I totally don't agree with...however, I wouldn't complain if I had to pay a few quid more each year to keep someone in jail for the rest of their natural days.

Liberal leftie speaking...

[ToraToraTora]

whenever the discussion about capital punishement comes up the clarion cry is that we may execute an innocent. You don't seem to bothered about innocents being slain because we let known murderers walk the streets. Just seems like a bit of a double standard to me.

[sp1814]

Huh???

[ToraToraTora]

my last reply was meant for zeuhl SP

[Zeuhl]

/Just seems like a bit of a double standard to me./

How exactly?

From my reading of anti-capital punishment posts on AB, the fundamental issue is that killing people is wrong and barbaric

It's wrong for private individuals to do it
It's wrong for the State to do it

The opportunity to review cases and release innocent people while they are still alive is a happy by-product

[ToraToraTora]

So you are pleased the state chose to release these killers then? I see!

[Zeuhl]

/You don't seem to bothered about innocents being slain because we let known murderers walk the streets/

TTT I am bothered about that
16.26 /Is it bad that 5 people were killed in this way? yes /

But in the overall scheme of things not as bothered as I would be if the problem was statistically greater - it would be nice if we could reduce it further

That seems a rational and intelligent approach.

Conversely, one might infer from your OP that it would be better to keep locked up all 1900 of the Lifers released on licence because 5 of them committed murder.

I don't think that makes sense.

[Zeuhl]

/So you are pleased the state chose to release these killers then? I see!/

TTT

It's ok for you to take issue with anything I post

But you should understand, it doesn't count when you take issue with stuff you have made-up yourself LOL

[ToraToraTora]

"....it would be nice if we could reduce it further" - err perhaps by keep known killers in jail!

[starone]

All I know, is I do not want to be one of the innocents who get killed, consequently I would prefer it if I knew they were well locked away!

[Zeuhl]

"....it would be nice if we could reduce it further" - err perhaps by keep known killers in jail!

TTT

What would be your methodology (in addition to those already used by the authorities) for identifying the 5 who were going to kill out of the 1900 released on licence?

Or are you proposing that all of them should be kept locked up including those who would go on to lead blameless and useful lives once released?

[jake-the-peg]

You're being played

This is all to do with the outsourcing of the probation service

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/05/three-reasons-chris-graylings-outsourcing-plan-probation-service-terrible-idea


It's catching a lot of criticism so Grayling's briefing all the papers to try to say what a terrible job they're doing to support the outsourcing project.

[ToraToraTora]

I don't have one, life would mean life they would all be in jail untill they die, if the silly EU demand a release date then they can have one in 150 years time. I find it remarkable that you think it's ok to let known killers out on to the streets based on n% reoffending rate, I suppose you'd see it as acceptable collateral damage. I don't.

[jake-the-peg]

Oh right

Europen court of Human Rights = EU

because they've both got Europe in the name

I suppose you think wikileaks is part of wikipedia too do you?


You know this - stop being childish

[pixie373]

I don't think a killer's right to freedom should ever come above an innocent person's right to life.