Are The Hs2 Plans Unravelling ?

[mikey4444]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24278772

A new Chairman appointed, Labour throwing doubt on whether it will proceed when they win the next election.

Are we looking at the death throws of HS2 ?

[emmie]

having looked at the headline in our local paper, this will do much more damage to parts of the capital than first proposed. 10 new swathes of the borough will be hit for months by building works according to this, that without the loss of much social housing and local businesses in and around the Euston area.

[mikey4444]

I haven't studied all the ins and outs of HS2 but the business case seems to be somewhat weak. If northern cities are brought closer to London, than maybe the main effect will be to draw business TO London, rather than expand the possibilities of the Midlands and North.

Perhaps we should be considering spending this eye watering HS2 expenditure on improving the trains that already have, and improving the roads. Every time I go opp north, the junction with the M5 and M6 at Wednesbury gets worse.

[emmie]

its a white elephant, it should be proceeded with. There are better ways to spend this money....

[emmie]

sorry, that should of course read, should 'not' be proceeded with....

[mikey4444]

emmie...I think you are right. To be honest, it doesn't look as if it is going to go ahead, even if the Tories win the 2015 election.

[emmie]

we have seen this before though, a project that is costly, unwieldy and not really fit for purpose gets the go ahead, though it came right evenually, the Millennium dome was a total white elephant... now a successful 02 arena but there have been other projects just as bad, signed off by whichever party.

[Gromit]

Labour have not said No.

They have said they are in favour as long as the costs do not spiral too high. Not yes at any cost. Seems sensible.

Strategic routes should be upgraded to bring us out of the 19th Century. They will be at some point in the future.

[emmie]

we are long out of the 19th century, but we do have some way to go on upgrading lines, even many stations which are a national disgrace.

[naomi24]

I have no idea whether plans will be ditched – but costs might have been something Labour should have considered more fully before initiating the project.

[emmie]

Labour may not get in next time, it is not a done deal with them or with this foolhardy venture, money should be spent elsewhere.

[emmie]

that is the point, they did not see the escalation and the massive build and disruption to people, homes and businesses, Camden will be a big loser

[mikey4444]

Costs WILL spiral out of control...they always do with huge capital expenditure projects. Anyway, HS2 will have to pass through an awful lot of MP's constituencies, so that in itself may sound the death knell.

[Zeuhl]

/bring us out of the 19th Century/

Trains, whatever speed they are capable of, are 19th century technology.

The idea that shaving 30 minutes off a train journey is somehow the most important factor is the same muddled and lazy thinking that produced the air transport white elephant that was Concorde

We should learn from that and invest in the 'wide bodied jet' of rail systems.

[mushroom25]

//the 'wide bodied jet' of rail systems. //

what did you have in mind, exactly?

[Eve]

Looking at impact on smaller London Boroughs compared with larger economic areas elsewhere in the county is a little capital-centric though, I think part of the point is that it's not all about London!

I can see some benefits, having spent some time commuting between Manchester and London for work I can see the benefit of a faster link for business reasons. It's not bad, numerous trains per hour and just over 2 hours at most times but can be overcrowded and costly, especially if travelling off peak to get to where you need to be early morning (also considering travel across London) or at the busier times of the day.

It's still significantly quicker than driving though.

I think I'd use it more to go to London if it was quicker, have a nice day out etc... Places like Birmingham too. Much less faff than getting to the airport and flying.

There are also some good looking plans for development here if the link does go ahead, regenerating areas around Piccadilly Station, bringing more business in.

[Zeuhl]

^
The 'wide bodied jet' analogy:

Well the most successful air transport systems today are not the 'fastest'

(after all, if you're going to spend hours getting to and through an airport/terminus, the actual 'travel time' is largely irrelevant)

They seem to be characterised by;

Optimising passenger numbers in reasonable comfort
Frequent services to lots of destinations
Reliability
Lower noise/emissions

And last but not least
Low operating costs/Easy maintenance = low ticket prices

[Gromit]

Aircraft are a 20th Century invention. No one would say we should stop to innovate aircraft.

Rail is very much still an evolving technology and is ideally suited to a small country with a lot of urban populations like ours.

China, who will be one of our trading competitors in this century are spending $100billion on railways now.

Those who dismiss railways should remember they were the lifeblood of the industrial revolution, and let to great prosperity and British dominance in world trade. Let our railways go to ruin and we will become inefficient and slowly die.

[emmie]

our borough camden will be the one most affected, it is not a small borough nor is this project capital centric, there are lots of places that will face disruption, and we already have crossrail going on, and before that the International St Pancras tunnel, and before that from Waterloo, these have and are massive projects, costing huge amounts and the disruption if you unlucky to live in the proximity is massive. The poor folk who live and work around London Bridge have had to put up with years of work on the Shard and the rail works that continue, good for the capital perhaps but this does not come without cost.

[janbee]

I hope it's cancelled. Put the billions of ££££££££££ towards updating ALL tracks,trains,services, stations etc throughout the entire network, not just for a few saddos in a dashing hurry to get to Birmingham. Cheaper to flatten both Birmingham and London and rebuild them a 5 minute walk apart.

[emmie]

China has a lot more people, and a lot more money.