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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1715340,00.html
I am sure it will all come out at the inquest.
Magicbeatle:
If your definition of a dogooder is someone who doesn't want prisoners to be raped and assaulted in prison, then guilty as charged.
You say you have contempt for me, and so be it. I am not afraid to say that I believe in human rights (everyones - not just terrorists, victims etc).
Much as I love a good debate, personally, with views like yours, I don't believe there is anypoint in continuing. If you honestly think that people should be raped in prison then God help you.
you are a bad person magicbeatle. Saying 'I don't care what happens to people' is pretty much what the bombers must have said; it is not an attractive approach.
It's starting to look as though the police thought Mr de Menezes was Osman Hussein (or Hussein Osman, nobody seems quite sure), the guy who was actually strolling on to Eurostar past Wanted posters with his photo on them. This would confirm what I posted at the start of this thread about intelligence: the police were killing the wrong man while the right one ambled through immigration at Waterloo.
Nonetheless it's gratifying that all the other suspects have been rounded up without lethal 'split-second decisions' or multiple shootings from behind. Just goes to show it can be done - and good intelligence was the key. I very much hope that these guys do indeed turn out to be the bombers, and that they are put away for ever - but with their human rights resepcted, to show that our way is better than their way.
magicbeatle - and isn't this a nice circular argument
you torture someone becasue you believe that they killed your family. Their relatives then kill you because you did the same. Your relatives then kill their realtives......
..... Of course, along the way a few innocent people get killed which is of course 'unfortunate' and 'collateral damage'.
Welcome ladies and gentlemen to the theatre of war and international terrorism
I would agree with you 100% on parts of your last post - I have already made clear I am for capital punishment (under certain conditions) - I would also support longer prison terms. I have varied views on zero tolerance - if sensibly done it can be very effective - however, there are always extreme cases..
Where I difer is that you obviously have an irrational view of prison - yes, prisoners have tvs and mod cons. They are also locked up in their rooms for 23 hours. They have appaling conditions to live in. Would you like to live in a cell block with a toilet in the corner. Would you like to have the constant threat of bullying with no escape. Would you like to shower with other people? I wouldn't. Don't get me wrong, I don't think prisoners should be treated to a life of luxury, but take off your blinkers and look at the real world.
What I do have issues with, is torture, rape and all the other things you mention in your previous posts.
Try not thinking of the world in black and white and realsie that there are many tones of grey.
Perhaps we should introduce 'thought crimes' and hang the people who think like you :-0 (feeble attampt at humour - no offense meant)
I dont have an irrational view of prisons. There are lots of criminals out there who think doing bird (as they call it) is easy. They are in and out all of their lives. If prisons were as tough as they used to be years ago they might think twice about going back inside. And there are some people (Paedophiles for instance) who should never be allowed out. You mentioned hanging, well I would hang them, and in public. Fear is a powerful thing, if your afraid of the consequences you will think twice before you act. It may not stop everyone (probably not paedophiles for instance), but it sure as hell would cut the crimerate down. However, the human rights lobby would never allow us to go down the road of extreme punishment.