ChatterBank0 min ago
Is The Daily Mail's Editor A Coward?
The Editor of the Daily Mail, Paul Dacre, has been accused of being a coward because he did not agree to be interviewed over the Ralph Milliband debacle on Newsnight
Instead, he sent a deputy, Jon Staefl, who Alistair Campbell wiped the floor with.
// The Daily Mail's deputy editor Jon Steafel was invited on to BBC Newsnight on Tuesday evening to defend his paper's decision to accuse Ed Miliband's father Ralph of “hating Britain”. He faced Alastair Campbell, who accused the paper's editor, Paul Dacre, of being a “bully and a coward” for not appearing himself, sending his deputy instead. //
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Do you think it was a mistake to send a minion to defend the paper?
Do you think he chickened out when he knew he would be on with Campbell?
Instead, he sent a deputy, Jon Staefl, who Alistair Campbell wiped the floor with.
// The Daily Mail's deputy editor Jon Steafel was invited on to BBC Newsnight on Tuesday evening to defend his paper's decision to accuse Ed Miliband's father Ralph of “hating Britain”. He faced Alastair Campbell, who accused the paper's editor, Paul Dacre, of being a “bully and a coward” for not appearing himself, sending his deputy instead. //
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Do you think it was a mistake to send a minion to defend the paper?
Do you think he chickened out when he knew he would be on with Campbell?
Answers
Let's have some respect and hold off the Daily Mail, shall we? Insulting it is like insulting someone's religion. There are one or two devout believers on here, who accept, without analysis or criticism, everything it says. That it sells many copies might be a cause of concern, but, like religion, it may have many who pay lip service to the beliefs but, in...
20:59 Wed 02nd Oct 2013
Whether or not the Daily Mail is at fault it was a BBC hatchet job.
I'm still mystified as to the issue, that they pointed out the truth - he was a anti British/West marxist or the fact he is dead?
Surely as Milliband Jnr has put himself up for election to run the country we should all know where he came from, especially in the light of some of his latest liaisons/unions.
I'm still mystified as to the issue, that they pointed out the truth - he was a anti British/West marxist or the fact he is dead?
Surely as Milliband Jnr has put himself up for election to run the country we should all know where he came from, especially in the light of some of his latest liaisons/unions.
/Why should the Daily Mail editor defend himself on the Left leaning BBC./
well it would have been an opportunity to demonstrate the truth and validity of what he printed
But it is his right to hide away instead and send his lieutenant to receive the mauling that was predictable bearing in mind the overwhelming tide of revulsion that his paper provoked from all quarters
This shabby episode has really taken the spotlight off the Tory Conference
Perhaps Dacre is laid up due to all the pins DC has stuck into his voodoo doll
well it would have been an opportunity to demonstrate the truth and validity of what he printed
But it is his right to hide away instead and send his lieutenant to receive the mauling that was predictable bearing in mind the overwhelming tide of revulsion that his paper provoked from all quarters
This shabby episode has really taken the spotlight off the Tory Conference
Perhaps Dacre is laid up due to all the pins DC has stuck into his voodoo doll
You're mystified what the issue is?
The fact that they've taken a man who fought for this country in the war and claimed that he hated Britain when he's dead and they are safe from libel?
That they've tried to imply that Ed Milliband has the same Marxist views that his father had despite all the evidence to the contrary?
Or the fact that they printed a picture of the man's grave with tasteless text over it?
The only reason you don't see the issue is that presumably you already believe the lies
The fact that they've taken a man who fought for this country in the war and claimed that he hated Britain when he's dead and they are safe from libel?
That they've tried to imply that Ed Milliband has the same Marxist views that his father had despite all the evidence to the contrary?
Or the fact that they printed a picture of the man's grave with tasteless text over it?
The only reason you don't see the issue is that presumably you already believe the lies
> Perhaps you can link to the Ralph Milliband work that demonstrates his 'hatred' of Britain
Unlikely. However, Steafel on Newsnight last night attempted to make this not about "hating Britain" but about "hating British values". While what "British values" actually are might be the topic of some debate, I think it would be fair to presume that they are not "Marxist values". Therefore if Ralph Miliband was a Marxist, espousing Marxist values, then it might be argued that he hated British values.
However, unfortunately for the Mail, one commonly accepted British value is the freedom of somebody else to have an opinion different to yours - i.e. tolerance. The "British value" of tolerance is something that the Mail seems to consistently lack. So, by their own twisted logic, they "hate Britain" too ...
Unlikely. However, Steafel on Newsnight last night attempted to make this not about "hating Britain" but about "hating British values". While what "British values" actually are might be the topic of some debate, I think it would be fair to presume that they are not "Marxist values". Therefore if Ralph Miliband was a Marxist, espousing Marxist values, then it might be argued that he hated British values.
However, unfortunately for the Mail, one commonly accepted British value is the freedom of somebody else to have an opinion different to yours - i.e. tolerance. The "British value" of tolerance is something that the Mail seems to consistently lack. So, by their own twisted logic, they "hate Britain" too ...
/The "British value" of tolerance is something that the Mail seems to consistently lack. So, by their own twisted logic, they "hate Britain" too/
ellipsis
That is a very good point.
Funny old Ralph Milliband, with his quaint Marxist ideas, sat comfortably in his Islington study is a classic British stereotype
He is interesting to have around but we would never want him in charge of anything important
I expect that is why the Daily Fail were trying so desperately to associate Ed with him
ellipsis
That is a very good point.
Funny old Ralph Milliband, with his quaint Marxist ideas, sat comfortably in his Islington study is a classic British stereotype
He is interesting to have around but we would never want him in charge of anything important
I expect that is why the Daily Fail were trying so desperately to associate Ed with him
The whole thing seems to be based on one diary entry
// The Englishman is a rabid nationalist. //
Ralph had been in the country a few months when he made that observation. Anyone disagree that the English are very pro Britain. Can anyone disagree with that statement?
// They are perhaps the most nationalist people in the world //
We had a huge empire and were proud of Britain's standing in the world. Can anyone disagree with that statement?
// . . . you sometimes want them almost to lose [the war] to show them how things are’ //
He is saying we need a reality check. He is not saying he wants the Nazis to win, he says we are under estimating the Germans and over estimating our ability to defeat them. It is a warning and written in 1941.
It is careless statement, but written in a private diary. It is similar to saying a Conservative saying " I sometimes want the Conservatives to lose to get rid of Cameron and Clegg'. He doesn't want the Conservatives to lose, and ralph Milliband didn't want the British to lose the war. He entered service with the Royal Navy shortly afterwards.
So there is nothing in this diary entry that merits the headline that he hated Britain.
He may have thought a monarchy was undemocratic and did not care for the aristocracy but so do many now who love their country.
// The Englishman is a rabid nationalist. //
Ralph had been in the country a few months when he made that observation. Anyone disagree that the English are very pro Britain. Can anyone disagree with that statement?
// They are perhaps the most nationalist people in the world //
We had a huge empire and were proud of Britain's standing in the world. Can anyone disagree with that statement?
// . . . you sometimes want them almost to lose [the war] to show them how things are’ //
He is saying we need a reality check. He is not saying he wants the Nazis to win, he says we are under estimating the Germans and over estimating our ability to defeat them. It is a warning and written in 1941.
It is careless statement, but written in a private diary. It is similar to saying a Conservative saying " I sometimes want the Conservatives to lose to get rid of Cameron and Clegg'. He doesn't want the Conservatives to lose, and ralph Milliband didn't want the British to lose the war. He entered service with the Royal Navy shortly afterwards.
So there is nothing in this diary entry that merits the headline that he hated Britain.
He may have thought a monarchy was undemocratic and did not care for the aristocracy but so do many now who love their country.
he just hated anything that wasn't marxist socialism. Sadly in that article various oddities seem to test that view. The wall came down but that was good somehow but I though that the Soviet union was the model for Marxism!! then there is the wholly capitalist method of tax avoidance in the passing on house in London avoiding taxes!! odd from a man who believed in Socialism.
almost as diverse and complex as those who adhere to the Islamic faith, and it obviously didn't start here, but with Marx and Engels, rather a while ago
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having read through most of it i confess that much of it just leaves me wondering what it all means.
Marxism is a socio-economic and political worldview or inquiry based on a materialist interpretation of historical development, a dialectical view of social transformation, an analysis of class-relations and conflict within society. Marxist methodology informs an economic and sociopolitical enquiry applying to the analysis and critique of the development of capitalism and the role of class struggle in systemic economic change.
In the mid-to-late 19th century, the intellectual tenets of Marxism were inspired by two German philosophers: Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels. Marxist analyses and methodologies have influenced multiple political ideologies and social movements throughout history. Marxism encompasses an economic theory, a sociological theory, a philosophical method, and a revolutionary view of social change
Marxism is a socio-economic and political worldview or inquiry based on a materialist interpretation of historical development, a dialectical view of social transformation, an analysis of class-relations and conflict within society. Marxist methodology informs an economic and sociopolitical enquiry applying to the analysis and critique of the development of capitalism and the role of class struggle in systemic economic change.
In the mid-to-late 19th century, the intellectual tenets of Marxism were inspired by two German philosophers: Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels. Marxist analyses and methodologies have influenced multiple political ideologies and social movements throughout history. Marxism encompasses an economic theory, a sociological theory, a philosophical method, and a revolutionary view of social change
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