Just How Useless Are Our Civil Servants?

[youngmafbog]

http://news.sky.com/story/1150020/norman-brennan-fraudster-free-despite-tip-offs

Heads should roll for this.

[jim360]

No more useless than the rest of us.

[Gromit]

In that particular case, about as useless as the police, who you fail to mention.

[bazwillrun]

for most it was a job for life and nigh on impossible to get rid of....pretty much the same today.

always a good place for non-achievers career pen-pushers, jobsworths etc etc and the like, and it probably always will be

[bazwillrun]

"No more useless than the rest of us."

speak for yourself

[bednobs]

i would imagine the "complexities" mentioned are money - i don't know how much it would cost to extradite home, then jail him for the fraud, but probably considerably more than the money he defrauded.

[factor-fiction]

It probably won't be worthwhile trying to extradite him and recover the money, but if I could I would stop his DWP pension. If he wants to appoint lawyers to help get his pension I think the DWP could string it out for quite some time

[youngmafbog]

Gromit, a policeman is a civil servant ie paid by the tax payer and managed by a Government body, well last time I looked anyway. Have they been privatised whilst I wasn't looking ?

Since when has the amount of money exceeding that of the crime meant we don't enforce the law? by that reasoning all murders rapists etc would never be prosecuted.

Jim, if a private company was run like Government departments then it woudl be broke within months. Poor contracts, poor service, SLA's broken.

But they don't go broke and that is because if you don't perform you dont get any reward and you are thrown out (with a few exceptions of course).

So, no, not "No more useless than the rest of us"

[jim360]

In the first place, it should be pointed out that the job the Civil Service has is far more wide than the remit of any other company. It has to run the country. That is such a massive job that, realistically, it's impossible to get right 100% of the time or even close to that. I'm not convinced that anyone could do much better -- and indeed how many of those here have tried?

The Civil Service is, also, huge, at well over 400,000 people. This means that there will be a natural variation in ability, and certainly there will be a number of people who are not up to the job, at least not all of the time. That's to be expected. Job security might be higher, maybe even unreasonably higher, although this is changing of late due to the hefty cuts implemented by the current government.

Actually those cuts, while perhaps necessary, tend to leave fewer people to do the same amount of work -- indeed, in some cases even more work due to the hefty reforms of the Welfare System for example. It's not surprising that with fewer people having to do more work that mistakes slip through.

So, yes -- I think it's fair to say that the Civil Service is overall not that much more useless than the rest of us. And where it does fail the reasons are as much related to the job it has to do as it is to the people doing them.

[Prudie]

bazwillrun that may have been true 30 years ago but is certainly not the case now. Thousands and thousands of civil servants have been made redundant and/or lost the perks of the past. Very unfair and sweeping statement based on no experience I expect.

[jim360]

As another point, Civil Servants are bound during their employment by the Official Secrets Act, which has the effect of meaning that they are unable to respond to criticism received for fear of losing their jobs. Such criticism is certainly fair at times, but even when it is not there is no right of reply. So every time a post comes up like this, it's worth remembering that you are sort of hitting someone who isn't allowed to fight back. When you do it it's fair enough and your right. When Ministers do it, as has happened far too often, it's completely unfair and irresponsible to blame their officials when they can't defend themselves.

How much of a problem this is might depend on your perspective, I suppose, but either way there is a lot of unjustified criticism of Civil Servants and very little that can be done about it -- which is surely unfair, no?

[sandyRoe]

Could someone be extradited for benefit fraud?

[friedgreentomato]

Baz and YMB have you actually got any experience of the civil service or are you just spouting off?

[bazwillrun]

"and sweeping statement based on no experience I expect. "

oh dear, how wrong.

1 stint in the "real" civil service, and one in the British coucil, although not officially CS its exactly the same, same sort of people and mentality for the most part.

After my first taste god only knows why i fell for it a second time and went to the British council.

glad to say i came to my senses and got out pronto...and they couldnt believe i was leaving "we thought you liked it here"..... mugs

spent around seven years chasing me to sign some document or other saying i wouldnt divulge anything (never did sign) ...sums them up really, shame they werent so smart and dilligent when it came to the actual job at hand

[friedgreentomato]

And may one ask how long ago that was?

[youngmafbog]

Bottom line is, we dont sack those that do their job. If we did clear the rubbish out then less people would probably do the job better. It's how businesses work.

400,000 - but not under one department though.