Have Those Days Gone.

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2464452/Heavily-pregnant-minister-Jo-Swinson-forced-stand-PMQs.html

Were the MPs right or wrong not to offer this pregnant MP their seat?

Even though I belong to the old school which still believes that the more able person should stand for those who don't appear to be able to stand for long, and the male of the species should hold the door open for the female. one has to be so careful these days that one doesn't offend.

Most would accept willingly whereas others will not and make sure that one knows they are offended.

[jno]

I've been around even longer than sp1814 - to the point that people now offer me seats - and I entirely agree. I've never seen anyone rebuked for offering a seat, though sometimes the recipient refuses politely. I suspect this is just a myth dreamt up by men to justify them remaining seated.

[ck1]

Do we know that she wasn't offered a seat by somebody?

[emmie]

Fred i have, not just heavily pregnant, but also some with babes in arms, elderly on sticks, sometimes people offer, but more often the poor soul has to stagger down the aisle to find a seat at the back. There are labels up saying those front seats are for those i have mentioned.

[emmie]

jno, neither have i, it would seem perverse to be rude to someone offering you a seat.

[sp1814]

pixie373

Unfortunately yes. I have indeed made that error.

You only make it once.

Just thought of something that may be pertinent...is it not possible, on public transport at least, that people do not give up their seats for pregnant women because they simply don't notice them?

If you go back in time, what did people do on public transport. Some read the paper, but the vast majority would just sit staring into nothingness...

Now it's different. On the bus this evening, there were people on their phones texting people on their iPads watching (what looked like) 'Eastenders', a couple of people on their Kindles, and a number of people playing games on their iPhones.

Literally we now enter a different world on public transport - we don't engage and we don't 'see' others.

[FredPuli43]

emmie, I note that , in the cases you mention, there was a seat available. So is your complaint that, seeing that there was, the people nearest the door did not stand and take another seat further down the carriage?

[sp1814]

I would also like to add this - there's a definite 'oneupmanship' when it comes to seat giving.

It's something that no-one really talks about, but it happens. When a pregnant woman or an elderly person gets on a tube carriage (I have seen this a number of times), there's almost a rush of people trying to give up their seat so that they can stand up looking smug and self righteous.

I know that there are occasions where people should give up their seats and don't, but believe me - there are also situations where people almost trip over themselves to be 'the big man/woman'

[sp1814]

AOG

By the way - returning to your original question...'have those days gone'? Yes, but only to a certain extent.

And if any woman objected to me holding the door open for her or giving up my seat, I would simply tell her, "It's called good manners, and if you had any, you would either politely decline or accept my offer".

And don't get me started on women who walk through a door you're holding open without thanking of acknowledging you. That is the bloody height of rudeness.

[FredPuli43]

sp, that reminds me of school days. Among other practices we were told to engage in, was standing when a woman entered the bus. This had the consequence that a woman would get on and be faced with a dozen or more boys standing rigidly to attention, all offering their seat, and all trying to outdo one another by being first. The poor woman, faced with this embarras de richesses, usually looked....well... embarrassed !

And I'm still irritated a bit by men of my age offering me a seat on the way back from Chelsea games ! Other people do too, but that is insulting, lol

[FredPuli43]

A drunk got on a tram and staggered to his seat. Next stop, a woman got on. The drunk staggered back up and said "Madam, please take my seat". "Thank you" she said, and he strap-hanged all the way to the terminus. As he got off, he said to the conductor "Did you see that,me offering that lady a seat? That's what's called 'old-fashioned, gentlemanly courtesy'" "Oh ", said the conductor, "Is that what it was? I was wondering about that. There was only you and her on the tram"

[Robb Wilton, 1934. Donated by the Fred Puli Fund for the Preservation of Old Jokes]

[sp1814]

Fredpuli43

Actually - I'm glad you've brought that up. I'm in an 'in between' age where the idea of standing when a woman entered the room had all but died out.

So...are we supposed to still do that?

I myself do, but that's because I'm gay and can get away with a load of weird stuff that straight men would find embarrassing.

[horseshoes]

I think men are damned if they do and damned if they don't. Poor devils.

[Psybbo]

Not completely, yesterday a man in his seventies was waiting in the supermarket for the fresh bread to be delivered. On being told about five minutes he went outside and sat on the wall. Two lovely young lads asked him if he needed help to cross the road. It made his day.

[EdgeofDarkness]

Not much sympathy for you, being a Daily Heil reader, but your question deserves answering. It's all down to how you were brought up. I always offer to give up my seat to women. Black, yellow, LTBG, you name it. It's really a question about how much you love your fellow human beings...the original feminist movement was hijacked. If one idiot woman rebuts my offer, it does not affect my behaviour to the next woman.

[FredPuli43]

Begad, sp, I certainly stand when a woman enters a room. Mind, I get a junior to fetch her a chair. Not making myself uncomfortable by giving her mine, what? I think all my generation stood up. What puzzled me, as a young man, was standing when she left, with the other ladies, to leave the men to their cigars.

[sp1814]

FredPuli43

Seriously - that's the most interesting thing I've read on AB this year (that might sound like I'm being sarcastic, but I'm really not).

As I said earlier, I'm in a strange 'in between' generation. We're too young to stand when a woman enters a room, but old enough to know that we should stand.

Therefore you get this weird half shuffling action where some men of my age try to get up and some don't.

It's along the same lines as that strange 'do I kiss both cheeks or just one' conundrum that many people face now when greeting a female friend.

And similar to the 'can I hug this man, or would a handshake do? situation that straight men have to face on an almost weekly basis.

In 50 years time, everyone will have sorted these social minefields out. But for now...

[China Doll]

I rarely stand for anyone - I'm young (ish) and would appear petfectly healthy, however what you can't see about me is I have a ropey hip and on some days I'm in a lot of psin. It's terribly easy to judge someone not standing up for old or pregnant people but as always appearances can be deceptive.

On the plus side my hip is fine most days and then it is my prefetence to sit upstairs on the bus as it savrs unnecessary seat sacrifice obligstions.

[EdgeofDarkness]

You need to lighten up sp. When kissing a woman you should do exactly what your instinct tells you to. Never mind any starchy protocol - how meaningful is protocol to the woman concerned ?

[jno]

this isn't real kissing, it's hand-shaking kissing. The norms have not been settled, but as a rule of thumb it's best to let the woman set the pace.

[FredPuli43]

Ah, Edge, but which side of the face do you kiss first? Not such an odd question; you might have thought that the French, of all people, would have settled it but different regions of France start differently.