What Do You Think Of This System?

[ToraToraTora]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24532694
It seems Islam has competition in the barbarity to women area.

[Gromit]

It is incredible that the writer of that article can write 600 wprds on the subjrct and not use the word 'Catholic' once.

The reason these counteies have such stern anti abortion laws is due to the influence of the Catholic church. Ie, is is due to religion again.

Nice discovery Tora, Christianity is just as bad as Islam.

[Gromit]

(I hope my typing improves thoughout the day, ^ that isn't a good start)

[LazyGun]

I agree it is inhumane, and once again, inspired by adherence to religious dogma, this time Catholic. Even were the political climate to change. the opposition is just as wedded to the Catholic church and its teachings.

There was quite a fuss earlier this year, over the plight of "beatriz". From an early stage in her pregnancy, the foetus had been diagnosed as having anacephaly, so that there was no chance any resulting baby would survive. Despite this, and despite the risk to this girls own health, the courts ruled she had to carry the baby to term, risking the death of the mother. It is a ridiculous situation, one caused by an inflexible law heavily influenced by the teachings of the catholic church.

This was an article at the time Beatriz made international headlines. Your article refers to her, 3T - says she survived her pregnancy, fortunately, although her baby, to no-ones surprise, died within hours of birth.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/30/beatriz-abortion-el-salvador_n_3360239.html

[ToraToraTora]

I was particularly alarmed by the idea that a woman can be prosecuted for having a miss carraige, madness. Yes gromit, I also noticed that the article failed to mention that El Salvador is primarily a catholic country.

[Gromit]

.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUspLVStPbk&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[keyplus90]

No, its nothing to do with discovering that Islam has competition. In reality since 9/11 media (and people because of the media) only see Islam. Media people are doing what a good (and clever) photographer would do by using a very large aperture to blur anything apart from Islam.

[Gromit]

Tora

If you had indeed spotted that this was a Catholic problem, it was curious that you did not mention it in your OP and instead referred to Islam.

[Sqad]

\\\\El Salvador has one of the toughest anti-abortion laws in the world. A side-effect is that women who suffer miscarriages are sometimes suspected of inducing an abortion - and can even be jailed for murder.\\

The medical staff clearly had grounds to suspect that this woman had procured an abortion herself, or indeed by a non medically qualified person and had this happened in the UK she would have been charged with committing a felony and the punishment would have been just as severe as in El Salvador.

[ToraToraTora]

Gromit: Of course I knew it was catholic, hence the sentence about islam having competition. I am well aware of catholic views on any form of contraception. In fact I actually checked on wikipedia first the extent of their catholicsism. When you are talking about contraception it goes without saying it's about catholicism, not sure what you are implying.

[ToraToraTora]

really sqad! Please!

[LazyGun]

@Sqad The difference being, of course, that we have a system where abortion is legally available - the Abortion Act of 1967, so someone having an abortion outside of those legally/medically defined criteria might rightly be charged. Women in these countries have no such enlightened laws, because of religious interference.

[Sqad]

LazyGun....agreed.....but illegal abortion remains illegal whether there are provisions for legal or not.

[Sqad]

"legal abortions or not" ^^^^^

[LazyGun]

I think the point is that, were legal abortions to be available, the woman at the heart of this case may very well have been able to have an abortion within the system ,and so not be banged up for 10 years in consequence. Perhaps such a system might then be able to better recognise what constitutes an actual miscarriage and what constitutes a deliberate attempt to illegally destroy a foetus.

In El Salvador, as with a very few others, the nature of their religious beliefs has flavoured their laws to such an extend that abortions are not allowed for any reason - even if the pregnancy imperils the life of the mother. That is an inhumane and barbaric system. Even the most devout muslim countries will generally allow an abortion if the mothers life is at risk from the pregnancy.

[FredPuli43]

Sqad, the Offences Against the Person Act 1861, section 58 provides that it is an offence for a pregnant woman to administer to herself any poison or noxious substance or use any instrument on herself with intent to cause her own miscarriage. That's all. There are two old cases, the last in 1909, suggesting that she can be guilty of aiding an abetting (we now call that being a principal) or conspiracy . However, the learned editors of Archbold's Criminal Pleading say that that is wrong and the suggestion should not be followed. The woman should be regarded as the victim of the offence in a case where she has got someone else to perform the abortion, and not indicted therefor. It is unlikely in the extreme that any prosecutor would disagree, and I am not aware, and nor is Archbold, of any more recent authority to the contrary or on the point.

But Sqad you are right in theory that punishment here could be severe if she did perform her own abortion. The maximum penalty set by our Victorian ancestors is life imprisonment. Whether anybody would ever be prosecuted for it now is doubtful; the prosecution probably would think it not in the public interest to prosecute the woman

[naomi24]

As barbaric as this is, nothing can complete with Islam's appalling treatment of women. There can be no excuse or justification for any of it. Religion is a blight on humanity.

[jim360]

The apparent presumption of guilt is the scariest thing. Admittedly I only became aware of this story about ten minutes ago so maybe am jumping to conclusions but it doesn't look like it. This is the ugly face of Christianity in the modern world. We can be thankful that it's not nearly as widespread as it could be -- and yet the Pro-Life groups in the US and other countries tell us that there is the potential for such attitudes to spread further and wider. How horrible.

[Sqad]

Fred......thank you for the legal clarification.

[youngmafbog]

Religion, what a wonderful thing.

The world would be a much better place without it. Wars, persecution etc etc often down to it.

[anotheoldgit]

Gromit

/// Nice discovery Tora, Christianity is just as bad as Islam. ///

I was unaware that the Church of England also supported anti-abortion laws.

Even so one cannot compare the Catholic Church's view on abortion for how it is interpreted in countries such as El Salvador.

Even taking into consideration El Salvador's barbaric treatment of some women, and I would think some men also, they are nothing compared to what barbarism Islam is known to administer.