Why Is Britain So Far Behind In Education?

[anotheoldgit]

Britain may lag behind Lithuania, Latvia and Hungary in a worldwide education league table, but heh, all is not bad, because 80.4% believe it's a good place to live for immigrants.

[sp1814]

The Daily Mail solely got it's figures from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, whereas the BBC's report is based on a combination of international test results and data such as graduation rates between 2006 and 2010.

I think looking at the two sets of results, that the BBC report carries greater weight...but then, I would say that, wouldn't I!

[jno]

I can't find the actual survey the Mail is talking about but here's what looks like a similar one, in which the UK fares better.

http://247wallst.com/special-report/2013/10/15/the-most-educated-countries-in-the-world-2/2/

[jim360]

Thanks for that AOG but by "what the ranking is based on" I don't mean words, I mean raw data. Without that a ranking is essentially meaningless, as countries can be separated by a small margin in absolute terms but a huge margin in ranking.

[jim360]

Incidentally the teacher-pupil ratio seems to be an odd thing to base a ranking on. Having a low ratio isn't brilliant if the teacher is useless, while even a 1:30 ratio can be fine if the teacher holds respect. I don't think it's the best measure to use, and probably skews the rating.

[jno]

I don't know why Legatum should particularly be liable to skew data, if that's the suggestion. Putting NZ top, or the USA fifth, or the UK 30th, doesn't seem to favour any particular social, political or economic agenda, at least not that I can see - suggestions welcomed, though.

[anotheoldgit]

jake-the-peg

From the Daily Mail link.

/// The latest study, compiled by the Legatum Institute, a London-based think-tank, used internationally recognised sources of information including data from Unesco that cover 96 per cent of the world’s population and 99 per cent of global gross domestic product. ///

The Legatum Institute, taken from this site.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legatum

/// The Legatum Institute is an independent policy, advisory and advocacy organisation within the Legatum group of companies based in London, United Kingdom.[1] The Institute researches and promotes the principles that drive the creation of global prosperity and the expansion of human liberty. The Institute undertakes original and collaborative research and publishes case studies and ancillary literature. Recent initiatives include the launch of the Legatum Prosperity Index,[2] which measures prosperity across countries as a combination of material wealth and life satisfaction. The 2012 index expanded from 110 to 142 countries and the ranking is led by Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Australia and New Zealand. ///

http://www.legatum.com/institute

[anotheoldgit]

jake-the-peg

/// They're a bit more neutral than a bunch of right wing american Neo-cons I'd say ///

Typical nasty left wing language, perhaps it is catching maybe that is where Cameron gets it from?

[sp1814]

And for comparison:

The BBC report was a global league table published by education firm Pearson.

I think this is their Wiki page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearson_Education

Pearson is an education publishing and assessment service to schools and corporations, as well as directly to students. Pearson owns leading educational media brands including Addison–Wesley, BBC Active, Bug Club, eCollege, Fronter, Longman, MyEnglishLab, Penguin Readers, Prentice Hall, Poptropica and Financial Times Press.

Pearson's rankings combine international test results and data such as graduation rates between 2006 and 2010.

This composite picture puts the UK in a stronger position than the influential Pisa tests from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) - which is also one of the tests included in this ranking.

The weightings for the rankings have been produced for Pearson by the Economist Intelligence Unit.

I think in the end, you pays your money and you takes your choice.

[sp1814]

"They're a bit more neutral than a bunch of right wing american Neo-cons I'd say"

What's nasty there????

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

/// but then, I would say that, wouldn't I! ///

In short, Yes.

Incidentally shouldn't that be a question mark, rather than an exclamation mark?

Just checking because as ludwig was so quick to point out, I left school so long ago.

[jim360]

"Yes" in the middle of a sentence shouldn't be capitalised, unless it's surrounded by quotation marks.

[jno]

most of Pearson's money comes from selling textbooks in the USA, I believe, so you could argue they have an interest in showing American education in a decent light.

I don't really see the point in blaming the messenger for the message unless there's some self-evident reason why they'd spin it. But it's clear different studies have produced different results.

[chrisgel]

Personally I would suspect any "league" table that places the UK below the USA.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/9705280/UK-education-ranked-sixth-best-in-developed-world.html

Something drastic must have happened in the last 12 months. Or there again it might all be b******t to be used for scoring political points.

[jake-the-peg]

You could also argue that they know a bit more about Education

So how do we go from 6th in Pearson's evaluation to 35th in this one?

[atalanta]

Since most grammar schools were abolished, teachers have discouraged competitiveness. To hold up one pupil as top of the class is to discourage the others, - that's the current thinking. Exam standards have dropped, but we have to acknowledge that the government has noticed this. Whether they'll do anything serious about it, I doubt. Exam boards have a vested interest in getting more pupils through exams with high marks, but many universities now claim that the pupils with top marks are not always qualified to begin University courses. We must encourage a greater spirit of academic competitiveness in schools. And special measures must be put in place to see that no pupil leaves primary school if he ( usually he) is not reading fluently.
It is only too easy for (mainly ) women teachers to be intimidated by boys who find it more fun to misbehave than to learn to read.

[jake-the-peg]

And your source from this is what Atlanta?

[sp1814]

AOG

I am loathe to get caught in the cross-fire between you and ludwig, but I would argue that the following is a statement, rather than a question:

"But I would say that, wouldn't I!"

because the person proposing it, already knows the answer, therefore he is putting forward what is grammatically a question, as a fact. This is why the exclamation mark is more appropriate than a question mark.

[anotheoldgit]

jim360

/// "Yes" in the middle of a sentence shouldn't be capitalised, unless it's surrounded by quotation marks. ///

The proper term is enclosed in quotation marks.

[anotheoldgit]

chrisgel

/// Personally I would suspect any "league" table that places the UK below the USA ///

If they are so pro American, then how is it they haven't placed America at the top of the table?

[AB Editor]

"Why was that Ed? Although it looks very impressive it has obviously been confusing for some posters."

The honest answer? I quite like a good table.

You can click through on the image to the story still - although I admit I should have made it clear.