ChatterBank20 mins ago
Why Is Britain So Far Behind In Education?
67 Answers
Britain may lag behind Lithuania, Latvia and Hungary in a worldwide education league table, but heh, all is not bad, because 80.4% believe it's a good place to live for immigrants.
Answers
It does not matter whose figures you accept. Education in the UK is and will now always be largely second rate. Here’s why: 1. 93% of children are educated in the State system. This has a number of fundamental flaws. Firstly it is administered by local authorities. These organisation
13:06 Wed 30th Oct 2013
I think we've established safely, AOG, that everyone is going to lose a battle of pointing out SPG errors. That's because there is no consensus anyway. I don't make a habit of doing it -- I'd advise you to do the same, because it just makes you look a bit of a fool when someone can pick up on an error in your own post.
For example, your last post needs quotation marks itself, otherwise it reads as a statement about "the proper term", rather than what you doubtless intended. And your criticism isn't even correct either, since there is no "proper term" worth fussing about.
Returning to the original post, I think it's reasonable to say that no-one takes the seriously. It doesn't agree with other recent rankings or surveys, and the measures it is based on seem to be a somewhat abstract measure of educational success anyway. A teacher-pupil ratio for example, or number of people going on to University or other further education without (apparently) considering drop-out rates or overall results. The best measure is surely examination results, but these aren't easily comparable.
For example, your last post needs quotation marks itself, otherwise it reads as a statement about "the proper term", rather than what you doubtless intended. And your criticism isn't even correct either, since there is no "proper term" worth fussing about.
Returning to the original post, I think it's reasonable to say that no-one takes the seriously. It doesn't agree with other recent rankings or surveys, and the measures it is based on seem to be a somewhat abstract measure of educational success anyway. A teacher-pupil ratio for example, or number of people going on to University or other further education without (apparently) considering drop-out rates or overall results. The best measure is surely examination results, but these aren't easily comparable.
sp1814
/// I am loathe to get caught in the cross-fire between you and ludwig, but I would argue that the following is a statement, rather than a question: ///
/// because the person proposing it, already knows the answer, ///
Knowing the answer yourself makes little or no difference, you are actually asking someone to either agree or disagree with your statement, therefore it is a question to that person, hence it should be followed by a question mark.
/// I am loathe to get caught in the cross-fire between you and ludwig, but I would argue that the following is a statement, rather than a question: ///
/// because the person proposing it, already knows the answer, ///
Knowing the answer yourself makes little or no difference, you are actually asking someone to either agree or disagree with your statement, therefore it is a question to that person, hence it should be followed by a question mark.
-- answer removed --
It does not matter whose figures you accept. Education in the UK is and will now always be largely second rate. Here’s why:
1. 93% of children are educated in the State system. This has a number of fundamental flaws. Firstly it is administered by local authorities. These organisations are particularly inept in just about everything they do. There is no earthly reason why State education should be under the control of local authorities. Central government is bad enough at providing basic services but to involve multitudes of Town Hall busybodies in something as important as education is simply daft.
2. Because of the fact that education is compulsory there are large numbers of children attending school who do not want to be there and, more importantly, whose parents attach no importance to them being properly educated. Inevitably these scholars disrupt the learning of those who do want to learn. The lack of selective education in almost all of the country means that there is no way to separate the two communities. Strangely an article published only today demonstrates that large numbers of parents believe it is perfectly acceptable, or even their “right” to add to their children’s already extensive holidays by taking them out of school during term time:
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3. There is certainly an element of difficulty in schools where large numbers of pupils do not speak English as a first language, or at all. There are added difficulties where children who allegedly do so arrive at school with no groundwork having been laid by their parents to prepare them for primary education.
4. Among many pupils and their parents, learning is not considered “cool”. In fact many children are positively castigated for being bright and their level of achievement obviously drops.
The wonder is that any children who go through the UK’s State system manage to gain anything like a decent education at all. All credit to those that do.
My “source” for these contentions is that I have spent some time observing classroom activities in a number of State schools since about 2001. Atlanta is quite right. The “all must have prizes” philosophy which infests most State schools is completely at odds with a competitive ethos which prevails in private schools (and, for that matter, in most worthwhile professions for which schools should be preparing their charges).
1. 93% of children are educated in the State system. This has a number of fundamental flaws. Firstly it is administered by local authorities. These organisations are particularly inept in just about everything they do. There is no earthly reason why State education should be under the control of local authorities. Central government is bad enough at providing basic services but to involve multitudes of Town Hall busybodies in something as important as education is simply daft.
2. Because of the fact that education is compulsory there are large numbers of children attending school who do not want to be there and, more importantly, whose parents attach no importance to them being properly educated. Inevitably these scholars disrupt the learning of those who do want to learn. The lack of selective education in almost all of the country means that there is no way to separate the two communities. Strangely an article published only today demonstrates that large numbers of parents believe it is perfectly acceptable, or even their “right” to add to their children’s already extensive holidays by taking them out of school during term time:
http://
3. There is certainly an element of difficulty in schools where large numbers of pupils do not speak English as a first language, or at all. There are added difficulties where children who allegedly do so arrive at school with no groundwork having been laid by their parents to prepare them for primary education.
4. Among many pupils and their parents, learning is not considered “cool”. In fact many children are positively castigated for being bright and their level of achievement obviously drops.
The wonder is that any children who go through the UK’s State system manage to gain anything like a decent education at all. All credit to those that do.
My “source” for these contentions is that I have spent some time observing classroom activities in a number of State schools since about 2001. Atlanta is quite right. The “all must have prizes” philosophy which infests most State schools is completely at odds with a competitive ethos which prevails in private schools (and, for that matter, in most worthwhile professions for which schools should be preparing their charges).
that's all very well, New Judge, but I think you'll find people making similar observations in other countries (I certainly have*), so it doesn't really answer the question. France has centralised education, so that it was said the education minister would always be able to look at his watch and know exactly what every pupil in the country was studying at that moment. But I don't know that this has boosted French education at all (they don't seem to be on this list, so it's hard to be sure).
* I remember a tour guide in Libya who said he'd formerly been a teacher but got tired of pupils talking back, not doing homework, and sleeping through lessons, and ended up changing careers.
* I remember a tour guide in Libya who said he'd formerly been a teacher but got tired of pupils talking back, not doing homework, and sleeping through lessons, and ended up changing careers.
Whatever we read whether it be news or items of interest given to us via TV,Radio or any other means is propaganda with a leaning towards whatever bias the informant follows, therefore how do we possibly learn the truth about anything ? If you think about it every teacher or tutor was originally taught by someone who was taught by someone else ad infinite um. So I repeat my question '' how do we find the absolute truth ?''
WR.
WR.
"There is certainly an element of difficulty in schools where large numbers of pupils do not speak English as a first language, or at all. "
Southfields Academy in Wandsworth the most ethnically diverse school in the UK -it has 70+ languages spoken there - and is one of the best performing schools in the country. How do you account for that? This seems to imply to me that multiple languages are not inherently a problem.
Southfields Academy in Wandsworth the most ethnically diverse school in the UK -it has 70+ languages spoken there - and is one of the best performing schools in the country. How do you account for that? This seems to imply to me that multiple languages are not inherently a problem.
Kromovaracun
/// Southfields Academy in Wandsworth the most ethnically diverse school in the UK -it has 70+ languages spoken there - and is one of the best performing schools in the country. How do you account for that? ///
Perhaps those type of schools receive special dispensations, that others do not?
/// Southfields Academy in Wandsworth the most ethnically diverse school in the UK -it has 70+ languages spoken there - and is one of the best performing schools in the country. How do you account for that? ///
Perhaps those type of schools receive special dispensations, that others do not?
New Judge - I defer to your 'everyone must win' observations. It's a pretty ridiculous state of affairs if that were true, but surely that's not an observation that holds true of exam results? These are centrally managed and monitored, so everyone can't win - because how could universities make informed choices on intake?
I cannot account for Southfields Academy, Kromo. I have no first hand knowledge of it. What I can account for is some of the schools I have observed. It is not unusual for there to be six or seven “classroom assistants” whose sole purpose it is to provide translation services for the pupils. Seven or eight people to teach a class of 25 or so is excessively expensive and takes resources away from proper teaching. Of course there are schools which perform well on any measure but they are the exception, not the norm.
I don’t know how the BBC compiles its education ratings. Maybe it considers success at GCSE and A Level. If so it may as well not bother. The “all must have prizes” culture has pervaded these examinations to such a degree that they are all but worthless to decent universities and employers. A Level results this year showed a pass rate of more than 98% with more than a quarter of entrants gaining the top grades GCSEs showed similarly impressive results with 98.6% obtaining a pass and almost 70% gaining the top grades. I think unless you fail to turn up, a “prize” is almost guaranteed.
I don’t know how the BBC compiles its education ratings. Maybe it considers success at GCSE and A Level. If so it may as well not bother. The “all must have prizes” culture has pervaded these examinations to such a degree that they are all but worthless to decent universities and employers. A Level results this year showed a pass rate of more than 98% with more than a quarter of entrants gaining the top grades GCSEs showed similarly impressive results with 98.6% obtaining a pass and almost 70% gaining the top grades. I think unless you fail to turn up, a “prize” is almost guaranteed.
sp1814
/// It could be dispensated up to the eyeballs, it still wouldn't explain why it's such a well-performing school. ///
Are you serious, it is obvious that if certain schools are receiving extra funding, smaller classes with more than one teacher as pointed out by the judge, they are bound to have a better achievement rate than those that don't receive these advantages.
/// It could be dispensated up to the eyeballs, it still wouldn't explain why it's such a well-performing school. ///
Are you serious, it is obvious that if certain schools are receiving extra funding, smaller classes with more than one teacher as pointed out by the judge, they are bound to have a better achievement rate than those that don't receive these advantages.
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