Jobs & Education0 min ago
9/11 - Time To Make Light Of It?
Answers
First off - it is too soon to try and 'make light' of a tragedy like this,but it begs the question, why would you want to 'make light' of it in the first place? ""The idea was to depict a modern-day horror that happened in our lifetime and was not intended as a joke." //" If it's not intended as a joke, why put on these constumes for a fancy dress party? By definition -...
11:22 Wed 06th Nov 2013
andy_hughes wrote:
"To return to my original point - the notion that these girls dressed this way for a nightclub fancy dress party in order to 'make a point' simply doesn't hold water"
Again, one has to ask these girls, "What point were you trying to make exactly?"
Also, to whomever referred to some 'prim and proper world where no-one is allowed to be offended' - I don't think that's what's on the table - something like this 'tests the edges' of what's acceptable as humour.
Everyone has boundaries, and this debate is about where those boundaries should be, not whether they should exist or not!
"To return to my original point - the notion that these girls dressed this way for a nightclub fancy dress party in order to 'make a point' simply doesn't hold water"
Again, one has to ask these girls, "What point were you trying to make exactly?"
Also, to whomever referred to some 'prim and proper world where no-one is allowed to be offended' - I don't think that's what's on the table - something like this 'tests the edges' of what's acceptable as humour.
Everyone has boundaries, and this debate is about where those boundaries should be, not whether they should exist or not!
the only true Nazi in the film is shown up to be a complete jerk
well, they all are, really. In the film's own terms, Nazism is just one form of wackiness.
But you're right about Brooks being Jewish himself and therefore sort of allowed to do this. And yet if the holocaust really was an assult on humanity in general, shouldn't we all have an equal right?
But as I already mentioned, people in the 70s were much less likely to take offence at everything.
well, they all are, really. In the film's own terms, Nazism is just one form of wackiness.
But you're right about Brooks being Jewish himself and therefore sort of allowed to do this. And yet if the holocaust really was an assult on humanity in general, shouldn't we all have an equal right?
But as I already mentioned, people in the 70s were much less likely to take offence at everything.
this debate is about where those boundaries should be
mmm, kinda... But (for me) it's also about whether my boundaries should be the same as yours and everyone else's. Dressing up as a burning skyscraper at a party doesn't cross my boundaries at all, though clearly many people, led by the tabloids, think otherwise. And I see no reason to realign my boundaries so they agree with the Sun's.
mmm, kinda... But (for me) it's also about whether my boundaries should be the same as yours and everyone else's. Dressing up as a burning skyscraper at a party doesn't cross my boundaries at all, though clearly many people, led by the tabloids, think otherwise. And I see no reason to realign my boundaries so they agree with the Sun's.
andy
I don't think it was a 'statement' either, so the bottom half of your post doesn't really apply.
"My point was that if you allow everyone to say as they wish, before long everyone wishes to DO as they wish,"
Why?
Maybe not everybody wants nice clean civilised humour. Maybe some people like humour that is cruel, or 'offensive'. I don't see how that makes them somehow degenerate or likely to go out and do something horrible.
"As the oft-quoted reference has it - 'Free speech does not entitle you to shout 'Fire!' in a crowded theatre. "
So freedom of speech doesn't count for actions that endanger other people or cause panic. Fair enough. How does dressing as the twin towers at a student union party do either of those things?
I don't think it was a 'statement' either, so the bottom half of your post doesn't really apply.
"My point was that if you allow everyone to say as they wish, before long everyone wishes to DO as they wish,"
Why?
Maybe not everybody wants nice clean civilised humour. Maybe some people like humour that is cruel, or 'offensive'. I don't see how that makes them somehow degenerate or likely to go out and do something horrible.
"As the oft-quoted reference has it - 'Free speech does not entitle you to shout 'Fire!' in a crowded theatre. "
So freedom of speech doesn't count for actions that endanger other people or cause panic. Fair enough. How does dressing as the twin towers at a student union party do either of those things?
At least you're being honest Ihatewills, rather than going down the laughable 'I believe they were making a serious statement' route.
Is anyone saying they shouldn't be allowed to do this? I'm not. I'm saying they can be as offensive as they like as long as it's legal, but it's ridiculous to expect nobody to object or comment on it.
That's what the question was after all - is it time to make light of 9/11? In my view, no.
Is anyone saying they shouldn't be allowed to do this? I'm not. I'm saying they can be as offensive as they like as long as it's legal, but it's ridiculous to expect nobody to object or comment on it.
That's what the question was after all - is it time to make light of 9/11? In my view, no.
ludwig - your tennacity is as admireable as jno's, but come on, it's time to let it go now.
As I have said, I can deal with immature stupidity, but not when it is retrospectively dressed up as 'making a point'.
How many people at a sudent fancy dress party in a night club are likely to go up to two girls dressed as The Twin Towers and say something along the lines of - "Wow, i really get the statement you are making ... er... well, i would if I had the foggiest idea what it was!!!"
C'mon, let's see this whole incident for what it was.
I am not in the business of crucifying two silly young women, but neither am I going to sit still while they insult my intelligence with the notion that they are somehow striking a blow for democracy by doing this.
As I have said, I can deal with immature stupidity, but not when it is retrospectively dressed up as 'making a point'.
How many people at a sudent fancy dress party in a night club are likely to go up to two girls dressed as The Twin Towers and say something along the lines of - "Wow, i really get the statement you are making ... er... well, i would if I had the foggiest idea what it was!!!"
C'mon, let's see this whole incident for what it was.
I am not in the business of crucifying two silly young women, but neither am I going to sit still while they insult my intelligence with the notion that they are somehow striking a blow for democracy by doing this.
but it's ridiculous to expect nobody to object or comment on it
why? In fact it doesn't appear anyone did notice or comment until the tabloids got wind of it. Then you get US newspapers blathering about what someone wore to a party in Chester. Now that is ridiculous.
As Gromit's pointed out, it's not even new: such outfits are available online. So we're talking faux outrage here, and I don't know how anyone can be expected to predict that.
why? In fact it doesn't appear anyone did notice or comment until the tabloids got wind of it. Then you get US newspapers blathering about what someone wore to a party in Chester. Now that is ridiculous.
As Gromit's pointed out, it's not even new: such outfits are available online. So we're talking faux outrage here, and I don't know how anyone can be expected to predict that.
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