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Poice And Crime Commissioners
PCCs have been in the news these last few days. It appears they were elected a year ago by a small turn out of electors and many people don't know whether they have a PCC or not, or what they are for. After all the training and experience chief constables have, it seems to me a bit of a cheek that they should be answerable to a PCC and perhaps even be dismissed by them. Anyone share this view?
Answers
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I think, Peter, that Manchester would have been better served in the seventies and eighties if it had simply had a different Chief Constable to James Anderton. He clearly, towards the end of his time, had psychologica
23:35 Thu 14th Nov 2013
No in Manchester we had a crazy chief constable called Anderton - there is a motorway service station named after him - who went unilaterally on a moral crusade - he arrested prostitutes and so on when people thought there were more important things to worry about (droogz and guns)
and then on the radio said he thought that he was the re incarnation of Oliver Cromwell.
and yes I think the city would have been better policed then if we had had a crime commissioner.
well, you did ask
and then on the radio said he thought that he was the re incarnation of Oliver Cromwell.
and yes I think the city would have been better policed then if we had had a crime commissioner.
well, you did ask
I think, Peter, that Manchester would have been better served in the seventies and eighties if it had simply had a different Chief Constable to James Anderton. He clearly, towards the end of his time, had psychological issues and should have been removed by either the GM Police Committee or the Home Secretary. Apart from some of his musings which gave him the nickname “God’s Copper” he completely shafted his Deputy John Stalker when he needed support whilst investigating the “shoot-to-kill” policy in Northern Ireland.
As far as the Police and Crime Commissioners go, they are an expensive joke. They were elected on about a 15% turnout; as soon as they got into office they set about building empires which made their £100k salary seem like pin money; the already have an “Association” (of Police and Crime Commissioners) which they should have no need for.
An interesting example of the Chief Constables being bossed by people with less experience than them has occurred in Surrey. Their PCC, former Chief Superintendent Kevin Hurley now lords it over Surrey’s Chief Constable Lynne Owens. When Mr Hurley was Borough Commander in Hammersmith & Fulham Chief Constable Owens was then one of the Met’s Assistant Commissioners - some three ranks above Mr Hurley. Having retired from the police he now has the power to dismiss Ms Owens.
Mr Hurley in particular suggests that he canvasses people in Surrey on their policing needs and passes the result of that canvass to the Chief Constable. Firstly, nobody I know in Surrey (and I know quite a few) has been or knows of anybody who has had their opinions canvassed and secondly employing the likes of Mr Hurley and his entourage to pass on those opinions is a bit of an expensive luxury.
There is no need for police and Crime Commissioners. Chief Constables should be hired and fired by the Home Secretary as in London.
As far as the Police and Crime Commissioners go, they are an expensive joke. They were elected on about a 15% turnout; as soon as they got into office they set about building empires which made their £100k salary seem like pin money; the already have an “Association” (of Police and Crime Commissioners) which they should have no need for.
An interesting example of the Chief Constables being bossed by people with less experience than them has occurred in Surrey. Their PCC, former Chief Superintendent Kevin Hurley now lords it over Surrey’s Chief Constable Lynne Owens. When Mr Hurley was Borough Commander in Hammersmith & Fulham Chief Constable Owens was then one of the Met’s Assistant Commissioners - some three ranks above Mr Hurley. Having retired from the police he now has the power to dismiss Ms Owens.
Mr Hurley in particular suggests that he canvasses people in Surrey on their policing needs and passes the result of that canvass to the Chief Constable. Firstly, nobody I know in Surrey (and I know quite a few) has been or knows of anybody who has had their opinions canvassed and secondly employing the likes of Mr Hurley and his entourage to pass on those opinions is a bit of an expensive luxury.
There is no need for police and Crime Commissioners. Chief Constables should be hired and fired by the Home Secretary as in London.
Agree, NJ. They are wholly unnecessary, a complete waste of money. And predictably, following Parkinson's First and Second Laws, they make work fill the time available and they have immediately appointed deputies/subordinates/assistants to assist them with that imaginary workload. No doubt, following that Law, these people will find a need to have deputies/subordinates/ assistants in due course , and so on
Just remembered, I posted this at time of Elections!
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I would agree with the previously expressed sentiments - including those from Peter Pedant.
Although as advised, the principle of a democratically elected official is only appropriate if the electorate are making an informed choice, and if sifficient numbers of them vote in order to make an election a fair representation of the wishes of the majority.
Neither of those caveats were present here, and thus far the achievements of these officials seem to rank squarely in the 'farcical' - appointment of a totally unsuitable 'youth czar', or the 'yet to make any meaning impact' - the remainder.
More 'jobs for the boys' so beloved of Westminster.
Although as advised, the principle of a democratically elected official is only appropriate if the electorate are making an informed choice, and if sifficient numbers of them vote in order to make an election a fair representation of the wishes of the majority.
Neither of those caveats were present here, and thus far the achievements of these officials seem to rank squarely in the 'farcical' - appointment of a totally unsuitable 'youth czar', or the 'yet to make any meaning impact' - the remainder.
More 'jobs for the boys' so beloved of Westminster.
I am in total agreement with those who deem such positions, and their staff and little empires, a total waste of time and money. That's what the public thought too, hence the abysmally low election turnout and the all but non-existent public profile most of these elected individuals have.
I live in Hertfordshire. I have been along to several of the PCC public meetings that he has held. He says grand things, but words are cheap, and some of his "ideas" have been risible in my view - corporate sponsorship and logos on police vehicles being one such.As for accountability - this guy, who has been elected, was previously the chair of the committee that the police reported to, and was in turn accountable for expenses etc. Not so much now; An MP committee has already called for greater oversight of their expenses and how they spend their budget, with some having luxury limousines and all sorts.
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I have yet to see how they were necessary, or how the cause of democracy has been advanced, or indeed how money and bureaucracy been saved. What I have seen is often inexperienced individuals exercising "great ideas" that do not pan out,obsessed and totally absorbed in initiatives and soundbite policies purely to raise their own profile and justify their own existence, along with the casual abuse of the expenses system.
I live in Hertfordshire. I have been along to several of the PCC public meetings that he has held. He says grand things, but words are cheap, and some of his "ideas" have been risible in my view - corporate sponsorship and logos on police vehicles being one such.As for accountability - this guy, who has been elected, was previously the chair of the committee that the police reported to, and was in turn accountable for expenses etc. Not so much now; An MP committee has already called for greater oversight of their expenses and how they spend their budget, with some having luxury limousines and all sorts.
http://
I have yet to see how they were necessary, or how the cause of democracy has been advanced, or indeed how money and bureaucracy been saved. What I have seen is often inexperienced individuals exercising "great ideas" that do not pan out,obsessed and totally absorbed in initiatives and soundbite policies purely to raise their own profile and justify their own existence, along with the casual abuse of the expenses system.
Baldric - she's not vanished down here in Dover. There has been a lot in the local press in past weeks about the disgraceful state of the public areas in the town - drunks all day, drug users, etc - and a big clean-up is promised, it's allegedly started already (although it'll probably push these people out of the "town centre" (sic) into the outskirts.... We're fed up with the state of affairs both in the day and at night, about time someone got to grips with it.
...and you are right, our PCC's greatest claim to fame was the employment and dismissal of the infamous Paris.
...and you are right, our PCC's greatest claim to fame was the employment and dismissal of the infamous Paris.
A bit of back-office spending:-
"Martin Surl, who is on a £65,000 annual salary himself, has 10 members of staff beneath him, all on taxpayer-funded salaries. These include a chief executive on £88,564, a commissioning development manager on at least £42,639 and a treasurer on £34,557, plus a communications advisor charging £350 a day".
"Martin Surl, who is on a £65,000 annual salary himself, has 10 members of staff beneath him, all on taxpayer-funded salaries. These include a chief executive on £88,564, a commissioning development manager on at least £42,639 and a treasurer on £34,557, plus a communications advisor charging £350 a day".
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