Should There Be A Lenient Sentance For Marine A

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/10454622/Marine-A-poll-finds-47-want-a-lenient-sentence.html

47% want a lenient sentence and 35 per cent believe the marine should receive a full life sentence for his crime.

/// Support for a more lenient sentence was highest among the over 55s, with more than half of those aged 55-64 saying that the law should make an exception for a serving soldier. Among the over 65s, some 55 per cent would support leniency. ///

It would be interesting to see a vote taken of amongst those who have actually served in Afghanistan, it is only those who know what pressures are involved when you fight those who do not wear any uniform of recognition.

[Sqad]

sp1814.

Yes, i agree with your...."leave it to the experts," but still allow the concept of opinion, even in the "non expert" community.

[jake-the-peg]

No Peter

This wasn't some beserk action under heavy fire - they discussed where to shoot him so not to draw attention to it and then executed him while making ironic comments

It was very cold and calculating

Tempting as I'm sure it is to make excuses for him his 'real crime' was executing prisoners plain and simple

[Peter Pedant]

.

Corbyloon - you were OK so long as you kept your dog tags.

My father as an escaping unsuccessful POW walked from Munich to the Danish border and was mistaken for an escaping concentration camp prisoner ( on your way you will be caught soon enough ) and also a spy.
So he fell into the hands of the Gestapo - all it needed was a call to the camp that he had escaped from. You were then returned to a different camp to avoid bullying (by the guards). A co-escapee gained a fractured skull on the way- which gave him a permanently jaundiced view of his captors. The Luftwaffe used to snatch allied airmen from the Gestapo - real 'you dont have jurisdiction - we do'

[jno]

sp1814, I'm sure Channel 5 would be happy to offer reality-show justice, with the public phoning in to say who should be freed this week.

That was how Barabbas was released, wasn't it?

[mikey4444]

Jake...you have it right here. I have rarely read so much drivel on a single subject on AB as this. Its worth pointing out that Marine A also put his friends into danger, by involving them in this murder. He is just a common criminal, no less.

[Gromit]

The taleban soldier was severely injured from the helicopter fire. He was incapacitated and unarmed. He was lay on the ground surrounded by three Marines.

The decision to murder him was not done in the heat of battle. It was not done in panic. It was not done as self defence. It was calmly done in full understanding that it was a war crime.

Strange that some want to make a hero out of such a cowardly crime.

[FredPuli43]

Exactly, gromit. I am thinking that he may get more than the standard 15 years minimum. The grounds for that are as you state, plus the Army absolutely hates soldiers who bring disgrace to the Army, and you can hardly get worse behaviour in their eyes than shooting dead a captured prisoner, in cold blood, Geneva Convention or no Geneva convention. They deeply dislike, and sentence accordingly, any soldier who steals from his comrades, and this is in quite a different league from that.

[anotheoldgit]

Gromit

/// So 53% think he shouldn't get a lenient sentence. ///

/// Since when did sentencing become based on a public vote? ///

The sentencing will not be based on a public vote.

This was an 'opinion vote' where 53% obviously had a different opinion to yourself.

Or is that also a crime?

[anotheoldgit]

mikey4444

/// Afghanistan was ruled by stupid, uneducated religious nutters, the very same people that shot Malala in the head, just because she wanted to go to school and learn. These idiots, the Taliban, treated all women appallingly. ///

It is not just the Taliban, such acts take place throughout the Islamic world.

[jake-the-peg]

I think you'll find it's not just the Islamic world it happens in AOG

[Zeuhl]

/It is not just the Taliban, such acts take place throughout the Islamic world./

No they don't aog

They take place throughout the Arab influenced world

Know your enemy

[anotheoldgit]

THECORBYLOON

/// If they WERE in uniform, what was it that prevented the same thing happening, was it the Geneva Conventions perhaps? ///

Yes you have it in one, but I don't think, in fact I defiantly know that this insurgent did not wear a uniform.

[jim360]

Do insurgents in Afghanistan even have a uniform?

[andy-hughes]

An interesting point has been raised on another thread - that those in favour of a lenient sentence find sympathy with the actions of the marine in question.

I fail to see why.

He shot dead a wounded and incapacitated insurgent and as the recorded dialogue shows, he was fully aware of his actions, and their potential consequences.

Mitigation has its place in criminal proceedings, but it difficult, nay impossible, to find any of merit in this situation.

Using emotive excuses like 'do it to them before they do it to us' really does not work in the legal system of checks and balances, and we must be grateful that it does not.

[jake-the-peg]

So he executed a civillian then?

Seriously AOG - stop trying to defend the indefensible just because he was a soldier

[Zeuhl]

/this insurgent did not wear a uniform. /

that's the thing with 'insurgents' (rising in revolt against established authority)
they tend not to


aog - just to clarify your moral standards

How much uniform does a helpless, wounded prisoner lying on the ground need to be wearing to make it unacceptable to execute them in cold blood?

[Gromit]

/ I definitely know that this insurgent did not wear a uniform. /

I'm pretty sure no stills or video have ever been released of the dead taleban fighter. How exactly do you know?

Marine A did not ever believe the man was a civilian. The whole uniform thing is a distraction. He murdered him because he KNEW he was Taleban.

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

/// I would tend to leave these decisions to the experts. ///

The 'Experts' can sometime get things wrong, as has been proved in the past, and don't you think that these 'Experts' might find themselves in such a position as to be seen doing the 'right' thing, which is not always the 'right' thing.

/// For instance, I'm happy with the General Medical Council deciding whether a doctor should be struck off. ///

If that doctor had given the wrong medication to your grandmother and who through that consequently died, but the General Medical Council decided not to strike that doctor off I wonder if you would also be happy, or would you be claiming compensation?

[FredPuli43]

AOG, where does the idea that 53% wanted a more lenient sentence come from ? The figure is 47%. And the Telegraph's piece says that is more than the 35% who wanted a whole life term, which is true enough.

The poll can't be read any other way. Life imprisonment is mandatory for murder, there is no other sentence, so the people polled could not have been voting for some other sentence unless they were amazingly ignorant, in which case their opinion is irrelevant. No, 35% wanted the man to die in jail. And just under half wanted him to receive a more lenient sentence, but what that means is not defined. It may be that the 47% know that he is facing 15 years minimum, and think he should not serve that. Who knows? But they do not constitute a majority of those polled.