Scottish National Party

[anotheoldgit]

Further to the forthcoming Scottish independence referendum got me wondering, how come Mr Salmonds can create a Scottish National Party, and go on to seek independence from the rest of the UK?

Yet if an English politician were to set up an English National Party and seek to make England independent from the rest of the UK, not only would that politician most likely be classed by some as extreme far-right wing, and his party also the same, but they would also most likely be labelled little Englanders, racist and fascist.

Why the difference?

[ChillDoubt]

Probably because wanting independence and/or showing a bit of national pride isn't yet an offence in Wales, Scotland or Ireland.
Doing so in England is deemed jingoistic and virtually a criminal offence!

[jim360]

Where to start? Firstly the historical basis for an independent Scotland (and Ireland, and even Wales) is rather stronger than that for an independent England, given that the UK was formed in part when the Scottish of the day seceded to the English. The English were the senior partner in the Union, so we have far less reason to want to leave.

Secondly, the single policy of wanting an independent England doesn't make you racist. The SNP has tied in its independence with a series of socialist policies so can't really be termed far right-wing by any measure on earth. If an ENP were formed and had the same set of policies it wouldn't be branded right-wing either. At least not accurately. If an ENP also aligned itself with policies such as some attempt to return to "purity", then it might be labelled racist, but then it would be. Independence isn't in itself facism or racism, it's the complete package that matters.

Thirdly, although it goes a bit far, you could regard the SNP as "little Scotlanders" anyway, so no difference there either. I think it wouldn't be exactly fair, but it's clear that at least one or two senior figures in the SNP, particularly Nicola Sturgeon, seem to be playing Independence as a chance to escape the vile clutches of evil Westminster.

[Milvus]

You asked this question before. I suspect you'll get the same answers. There is nothing to stop such a party being created. Why you think it would be branded right wing or fascist is in your imagination. You couldn't accuse the Welsh nationalists of either of those labels

[Gromit]

The difference is that English Nationalism isn't popular. The only people interested in English Nationalism are extreme right wingers. Most in the centre of the political spectrum have no interest in it. They tend to be more interested in a United Kingdom.

You will probably find independence isn't that popular in Scotland either. The vote in Scotland is likely to go against independence.

The fact that Scotland was once a souvreign nation before it was merged into the UK Is also different. If England were being rules from Edinburgh, then English Nationalism would probably be more popular.

[THECORBYLOON]

Salmond did not create the SNP, it's been going since 1934 and there is already an English National Party.

[WesterRoss]

Get your facts right. Alex Salmond did not create the SNP. The SNP was founded in 1934 long before Alex Salmond became a member of it.

[ChillDoubt]

I believe AOG means since Salmond brought it to prominence.

[kinell]

I am most disappointed that English voters are not getting to vote in the referendum as to 'do we want Scotland to be independent?'.
My view is yes, they cost us money and never stop whingeing.

[Gromit]

You can join AOG

http://www.politicsresources.net/area/uk/ge10/man/parties/EngIndP.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Democrats

The English Democrats got .02% of the vote at the last general election.

[Gromit]

Should be 0.2% of the vote.

[sp1814]

AOG

I don't think the answers you're going to get are going to be substantially different from the last two times your asked this question:

http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/News/Question820226.html
http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/News/Question994825.html

One hopes no-one is mean enough to accuse you of having a chip on your shoulder, eh?

[anotheoldgit]

ChillDoubt

/// I believe AOG means since Salmond brought it to prominence. ///

Thank you ChilliDoubt for explaining that, some such as WesterRoss would rather take the chance to be abusive than figure matters out for themselves.

[anotheoldgit]

Gromit

/// The difference is that English Nationalism isn't popular. The only people interested in English Nationalism are extreme right wingers. ///

I think Gromit has proven the point I was making.

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

That was way back in 2009, with it now being more topical, since then we have had new members on AB, so can anyone blame me of entering the question once again.

But then don't let that stop you from having the usual dig.

/// One hopes no-one is mean enough to accuse you of having a chip on your shoulder, eh? ///

No they will leave that to you, seeing that you happen to have the most experience of carrying around a chip on your shoulder.

[tballrossi]

After hearing Alex Salmonds describing how an independent Scotland would be everyone should be packing their bags and heading up there, it sounds like utopia.

[anotheoldgit]

Came across this by typing English National Party in Google.

Most of the things I agree with and a very few that I don't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nc3s-7w96KA

[Coobeastie]

If that's representative of the ENP would you seriously vote for a party that can't even get the spelling of our Patron Saint correct.

[sp1814]

AOG

I wasn't having a dig at all.

Just because you have a certain number of topics that you repeatedly return to with the regularity that a goldfish would find admirable doesn't mean you have a chip on your shoulder.

I know how irritating it can be when someone throws that accusation even when they don't have a shred of evidence to support it, and I hope they don't accuse you of the same.

Now...what have the Muslims been up to today?

[sp1814]

AOG

By the way, I now see a pattern.

You asked the question in 2009, then if you look at the second time you asked it was 2011.

Now it's two years later with exactly the same question.

Roll on 2015, 2017, 2019 etc...

[anotheoldgit]

tballrossi

/// After hearing Alex Salmonds describing how an independent Scotland would be everyone should be packing their bags and heading up there, it sounds like utopia. ///

I may be wrong but I don't think he has mentioned immigration control yet.

Only this:

*** Meanwhile those in support of an independent Scotland put forward the view that Scotland should have responsibility for its own migration policy and its own borders – thus better enabling Scotland to tailor its immigration policy to better address the particular skills, demographic needs, and skilled labour shortages in Scotland. ***