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Is This One Debate That Is Long Overdue?
57 Answers
http://
/// Douglas Carswell, a back-bench Tory MP, said that Britain's needs to have a "national debate" about the impact of immigration on social cohesion. ///
In some area's schools English children are in the minority in there own country, can this be right?
/// To help cope with the growing diversity of their pupils, schools have enlisted interpreters to help at parents evenings and bi-lingual teaching assistants for reception classes. ///
/// Douglas Carswell, a back-bench Tory MP, said that Britain's needs to have a "national debate" about the impact of immigration on social cohesion. ///
In some area's schools English children are in the minority in there own country, can this be right?
/// To help cope with the growing diversity of their pupils, schools have enlisted interpreters to help at parents evenings and bi-lingual teaching assistants for reception classes. ///
Answers
AOG, save your breath mate, some can fully understand what your saying, some know It's happening and say nothing, some like yourself point to the Serious Issue and get a " rampant xenophobia person" thrown at them.
16:24 Sat 01st Feb 2014
It is not only a debate on the impact of schools/education but on the impact of housing, services, land available to accommodate the rise that will come in population and all the rest of the implications of what may befall this country. The whole thing for this growing concern to a lot of people needs debate and action to go with it. However I fear it will be much too little too late unfortunately.
rampant xenophobia, well that puts us all in the doghouse doesn't it.
i have come across lots of older people who can't speak English, and by older i don't mean schoolchildren, those who work in the public sector, poor command of the language, those who serve in the local shops, one guy working in superdrug couldn't understand what me at all, and strange that i speak English pretty well. If the schoolchildren do pick it up quickly that is just as well, as many of their parents, those i have come across don't, can't, or perhaps won't speak English.
i have come across lots of older people who can't speak English, and by older i don't mean schoolchildren, those who work in the public sector, poor command of the language, those who serve in the local shops, one guy working in superdrug couldn't understand what me at all, and strange that i speak English pretty well. If the schoolchildren do pick it up quickly that is just as well, as many of their parents, those i have come across don't, can't, or perhaps won't speak English.
AOG, do you regard a child whose parents speak a language other than English as their native tongue, as being a foreigner and not English ? With no exceptions? When does such a child become English, if ever?
As I have mentioned before, my own daughter was in a school, at 5, where she was the only child in her class with English as their first language. Those children grew up bilingual, in a few rare cases, trilingual. What passes for education in Knightsbridge may be the same as that elsewhere. Children learn fast and, yes, in her school some children needed help to get 'up to speed' quickly, but they all did so quckly, helped or not.
As I have mentioned before, my own daughter was in a school, at 5, where she was the only child in her class with English as their first language. Those children grew up bilingual, in a few rare cases, trilingual. What passes for education in Knightsbridge may be the same as that elsewhere. Children learn fast and, yes, in her school some children needed help to get 'up to speed' quickly, but they all did so quckly, helped or not.
a friend who is a head teacher has her work cut out, her school gets endless intakes of Eastern European children, and with each intake come many who cannot speak English. That brings me to the point why are we having to teach their children English, if you go to live in Spain, France, you would have to attend a language school to learn their language, and not assume that the school will teach you
TWR
I'm sure that AOG raised this thread in order to spark a debate, and that's what people are doing. It would be unfair to silence him simply because others have a different point of view.
FredPuli43 - I've been down a similar road with AOG (what constitutes 'British'), and failed to get a satisfactory answer from him.
I strongly suggest you avoid any attempts to pin him down on this - it's as easy as trying to out a blancmange into an envelope.
I'm sure that AOG raised this thread in order to spark a debate, and that's what people are doing. It would be unfair to silence him simply because others have a different point of view.
FredPuli43 - I've been down a similar road with AOG (what constitutes 'British'), and failed to get a satisfactory answer from him.
I strongly suggest you avoid any attempts to pin him down on this - it's as easy as trying to out a blancmange into an envelope.
Public Schools like Eton are used to accepting students from Royalty and the very rich from all over the world. These students' first language is not English, but it is not seen as a crisis or undermining anyone. The english rich still send their children to Eton even though their class mates might come from all corners of the globe and not have English as their first language.
No bazwillrun, I don't mean that at all.
I couldn't get an answer from him. The clue is in my post when I wrote:
"I've been down a similar road with AOG (what constitutes 'British'), and failed to get a satisfactory answer from him".
If he had provided an answer that I disagreed with, I would've written, "I've been down a similar road with AOG (what constitutes 'British'), and I completely disagreed with him".
Do you see the difference?
Also, it might help the debate if you try to avoid the word 'bias' and substitute it with 'opinion'. I know it's of no interest to you what people on AB think, but I have seen a number posts where other contributors have concluded that you are as thick as a whale omelette.
I don't believe this is true.
I couldn't get an answer from him. The clue is in my post when I wrote:
"I've been down a similar road with AOG (what constitutes 'British'), and failed to get a satisfactory answer from him".
If he had provided an answer that I disagreed with, I would've written, "I've been down a similar road with AOG (what constitutes 'British'), and I completely disagreed with him".
Do you see the difference?
Also, it might help the debate if you try to avoid the word 'bias' and substitute it with 'opinion'. I know it's of no interest to you what people on AB think, but I have seen a number posts where other contributors have concluded that you are as thick as a whale omelette.
I don't believe this is true.
baz, AOG:"English children are in the minority in their own country, can this be right ?" Not, notice, "English speaking/ anglophone children are in the minority, can this be right?. " Whose country are the other children in? That's what I want to know. AOG chose those words, for some reason. What was it?
See, baz, what the point is ?
See, baz, what the point is ?
FredPuli43
To understand what AOG means, I think he will have to define what he means by English.
I suspect (although I don't know for sure), he means 'white Anglo Saxon), because that's what he seemed to be saying during the previous thread I referred to. It was one where someone else said that 'a dog born in a stable is still a dog, not a horse'.
This is guesswork, but I think that AOG means that if your parents were born abroad, but you were born in English, that doesn't mean that you are English.
So if a school, say in Newham, has only 15% White English children, with the rest born here from immigrant families, you could argue that English children are in the minority.
That's if you agree with his definition of English/British.
Again - guesswork based on some of the responses to my questions on that previous thread. I am saying that's AOG's definition...it's just what I inferred.
To understand what AOG means, I think he will have to define what he means by English.
I suspect (although I don't know for sure), he means 'white Anglo Saxon), because that's what he seemed to be saying during the previous thread I referred to. It was one where someone else said that 'a dog born in a stable is still a dog, not a horse'.
This is guesswork, but I think that AOG means that if your parents were born abroad, but you were born in English, that doesn't mean that you are English.
So if a school, say in Newham, has only 15% White English children, with the rest born here from immigrant families, you could argue that English children are in the minority.
That's if you agree with his definition of English/British.
Again - guesswork based on some of the responses to my questions on that previous thread. I am saying that's AOG's definition...it's just what I inferred.
For those who are interested, here is some explanation on the complicated issue of English and British.
/// Many recent immigrants to England have assumed a solely British identity, while others have developed dual or hyphenated identities.Use of the word "English" to describe Britons from ethnic minorities in England is complicated by most non-white people in England identifying as British rather than English. In their 2004 Annual Population Survey, the Office for National Statistics compared the ethnic identities of British people with their perceived national identity. They found that while 58% of white people described their nationality as "English", the vast majority of non-white people called themselves "British". ///
/// However, these groups are often still considered to be ethnic minorities and research has shown that black and Asian people in the UK are more likely to identify as British rather than with one of the state's four constituent nations, including England. ///
/// Many recent immigrants to England have assumed a solely British identity, while others have developed dual or hyphenated identities.Use of the word "English" to describe Britons from ethnic minorities in England is complicated by most non-white people in England identifying as British rather than English. In their 2004 Annual Population Survey, the Office for National Statistics compared the ethnic identities of British people with their perceived national identity. They found that while 58% of white people described their nationality as "English", the vast majority of non-white people called themselves "British". ///
/// However, these groups are often still considered to be ethnic minorities and research has shown that black and Asian people in the UK are more likely to identify as British rather than with one of the state's four constituent nations, including England. ///
bazwillrun
/// what you mean is an answer that youre happy with and fits youre bias on the matter ///
That is absolutely correct Baz, I have been down this road many times with sp1814, and he will not be happy until i agree with his view on the matter.
Regarding his post when he put
/// Also, it might help the debate if you try to avoid the word 'bias' and substitute it with 'opinion'. I know it's of no interest to you what people on AB think, but I have seen a number posts where other contributors have concluded that you are as thick as a whale omelette. ///
Notice he also tries to stop you from using the word 'bias' and wants you to use 'opinion' instead, well let's keep him happy and use both shall we?
"Bias Opinion".
Notice how he cowardly distances himself from the insult regarding your intelligence, while at the same time mentioning it,there is no place for this type of thing, I myself would never think of reproducing some other's insults, if I didn't also agree with therm myself.
/// what you mean is an answer that youre happy with and fits youre bias on the matter ///
That is absolutely correct Baz, I have been down this road many times with sp1814, and he will not be happy until i agree with his view on the matter.
Regarding his post when he put
/// Also, it might help the debate if you try to avoid the word 'bias' and substitute it with 'opinion'. I know it's of no interest to you what people on AB think, but I have seen a number posts where other contributors have concluded that you are as thick as a whale omelette. ///
Notice he also tries to stop you from using the word 'bias' and wants you to use 'opinion' instead, well let's keep him happy and use both shall we?
"Bias Opinion".
Notice how he cowardly distances himself from the insult regarding your intelligence, while at the same time mentioning it,there is no place for this type of thing, I myself would never think of reproducing some other's insults, if I didn't also agree with therm myself.
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