ChatterBank0 min ago
Nazi Sympathisers
The papers today carry a story of a 'genius' spycatcher who infiltrated nazi sympathisers during the war. The story is interesting, as is its conclusion.
The sympathisers came from the aristocrisy and the establishment. And none of the traitors were ever prosecuted for helping the enemy, they remained free.
// He gathered information on the aristocracy, the military and the intellectual elite, with one sympathiser claiming to have influence over Herbert Morrison, the home secretary at the time.
He also shed light on the fascist plans of Sir Oswald Mosley and “Hitler worshippers” such as George Pitt-Rivers, Churchill’s cousin.
MI5 was unable to prosecute those involved for fear it would be accused of entrapment, and it was decided that telling the sympathisers they had been duped would push them further underground. //
http://
Do you think they escaped jjustice because of their connections?
The sympathisers came from the aristocrisy and the establishment. And none of the traitors were ever prosecuted for helping the enemy, they remained free.
// He gathered information on the aristocracy, the military and the intellectual elite, with one sympathiser claiming to have influence over Herbert Morrison, the home secretary at the time.
He also shed light on the fascist plans of Sir Oswald Mosley and “Hitler worshippers” such as George Pitt-Rivers, Churchill’s cousin.
MI5 was unable to prosecute those involved for fear it would be accused of entrapment, and it was decided that telling the sympathisers they had been duped would push them further underground. //
http://
Do you think they escaped jjustice because of their connections?
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surely it would have been entrapment, however i maintain that Mosley should have been hanged, you should also look at who helped George Blake escape to Russia, that might be a separate issue and during the cold war, but sympathisers came from all walks of life, for communism, fascism, Nazi lovers weren't just from the aristocracy, as to connection, are there records that Churchill might have pulled some strings, if he did i would be very surprised.
from the link
Continuing the operation after the war proved impracticable and the “SR” investigation was closed down in 1949.
MI5 was unable to prosecute those involved for fear it would be accused of entrapment, and it was decided that telling the sympathisers they had been duped would push them further underground.
from the link
Continuing the operation after the war proved impracticable and the “SR” investigation was closed down in 1949.
MI5 was unable to prosecute those involved for fear it would be accused of entrapment, and it was decided that telling the sympathisers they had been duped would push them further underground.
and obviously not all well born or well connected, and more than perhaps some supposed. I would hazard a guess that there were many who escaped justice, because they were good at hiding their feelings, political leanings, sympathisers don't always show their true colours until the moment is ripe, for example had the Germans landed here.
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emmie
/// surely it would have been entrapment, however i maintain that Mosley should have been hanged ///
For what?
Just because his political beliefs were alien to some others? his only crime was that he was a staunch nationalist for this he and his wife were interned in Holloway prison until their release in November 1943.
/// On the 21 May 1940 leading members of the BUF, including Mosley and key members of his organisation such as Neil Francis Hawkins and Alexander Raven Thomson, were interned under Regulation 18B(1A), which permitted the government to detain persons who had associations with enemy powers, Arnold S. Leese was among the other fascist internees. Mosley and his wife lived in a small house in Holloway prison, with a small garden. ///
http://
/// surely it would have been entrapment, however i maintain that Mosley should have been hanged ///
For what?
Just because his political beliefs were alien to some others? his only crime was that he was a staunch nationalist for this he and his wife were interned in Holloway prison until their release in November 1943.
/// On the 21 May 1940 leading members of the BUF, including Mosley and key members of his organisation such as Neil Francis Hawkins and Alexander Raven Thomson, were interned under Regulation 18B(1A), which permitted the government to detain persons who had associations with enemy powers, Arnold S. Leese was among the other fascist internees. Mosley and his wife lived in a small house in Holloway prison, with a small garden. ///
http://
emmie
/// he was a traitor, and should have hanged. ///
He served his country in WW1, both in the Sixteenth Lancers in France and then in the Royal Flying Corps,
/// Had the Nazi landed here, do you suppose he wouldn't have welcomed them with open arms. His black shirts were akin to the Brown shirts in Nazi Germany ///
He may well have done who knows, but then in such circumstances so would many have turned to the invading forces, as they did in all the countries occupied by the Nazis, not everyone were resistant fighters.
/// he was a traitor, and should have hanged. ///
He served his country in WW1, both in the Sixteenth Lancers in France and then in the Royal Flying Corps,
/// Had the Nazi landed here, do you suppose he wouldn't have welcomed them with open arms. His black shirts were akin to the Brown shirts in Nazi Germany ///
He may well have done who knows, but then in such circumstances so would many have turned to the invading forces, as they did in all the countries occupied by the Nazis, not everyone were resistant fighters.
he may have done his duty, many did in the first world war, but he was no lover of Britain, he may have had different views, but don't you think had Hitler got his way, that he wouldn't have wiped out many in Britain, including royalty, they may have been exiled, but politicians, intellegensia, jews, homosexuals, and many many more would have been sent to camps, we wouldn't have escaped, and Mosley was a supporter of his regime.
wiki
After the war Mosley was contacted by his former supporters and persuaded to return to participation in politics. He formed the Union Movement, which called for a single nation-state to cover the continent of Europe (known as Europe a Nation) and later attempted to launch a National Party of Europe to this end. The Union Movement's meetings were often physically disrupted, as Mosley's meetings had been before the war, and largely by the same opponents. This led to Mosley's decision, in 1951, to leave Britain and live in Ireland. He later moved to Paris. Of his decision to leave, he said, "You don't clear up a dungheap from underneath it."
After the war Mosley was contacted by his former supporters and persuaded to return to participation in politics. He formed the Union Movement, which called for a single nation-state to cover the continent of Europe (known as Europe a Nation) and later attempted to launch a National Party of Europe to this end. The Union Movement's meetings were often physically disrupted, as Mosley's meetings had been before the war, and largely by the same opponents. This led to Mosley's decision, in 1951, to leave Britain and live in Ireland. He later moved to Paris. Of his decision to leave, he said, "You don't clear up a dungheap from underneath it."
No come on boyz and gurlz we are re-writing history here.
On the Channel islands the british authorities 'had to' co operate with the Nazi occupiers and so come the glorious libneration, were any of the big nobs led off to jail for collaboration ?
No - too important or whatever. When the documents were released under the 50 y rule - 1995 that would be - all the old wounds were re-opened. Especially amongst those who had been deported for forced labour ( = every able bodied man )
Of the six or so people who were shot / hanged for treason - Wm Joyce, Baillie Stewart and a few others, Churchill stopped them for policy reasons and said enough... and that was because there was no public appetite for them.
It was decided instead that there would be no trials because there was no collanboration. This is not a mistake - it was a policy decision
and so we are bound to find people -" who got away with it "
As for Oswald Mosley said things we now dont like so he should have been sent to prison or shot.....
oh dear - what happened to free speech ?
or even
oh dear we didnt have more free speech in the thirties than we do now, do we ?
On the Channel islands the british authorities 'had to' co operate with the Nazi occupiers and so come the glorious libneration, were any of the big nobs led off to jail for collaboration ?
No - too important or whatever. When the documents were released under the 50 y rule - 1995 that would be - all the old wounds were re-opened. Especially amongst those who had been deported for forced labour ( = every able bodied man )
Of the six or so people who were shot / hanged for treason - Wm Joyce, Baillie Stewart and a few others, Churchill stopped them for policy reasons and said enough... and that was because there was no public appetite for them.
It was decided instead that there would be no trials because there was no collanboration. This is not a mistake - it was a policy decision
and so we are bound to find people -" who got away with it "
As for Oswald Mosley said things we now dont like so he should have been sent to prison or shot.....
oh dear - what happened to free speech ?
or even
oh dear we didnt have more free speech in the thirties than we do now, do we ?
From http://
By 1934 Mosley was expressing strong anti-Semitic views and provocative marches through Jewish districts in London led to riots.
Mosley attracted members from other right-wing groups such as the British Fascisti, National Fascists and the Imperial Fascist League. By 1934 the BUF was able to establish its own drinking clubs and football teams.
The BUF also gained the support of Lord Rothermere and the Daily Mail. Rothermere wrote an article, Hurrah for the Blackshirts, on 22nd January, 1934, in which he praised Mosley for his "sound, commonsense, Conservative doctrine".
Funny innit. Times change but some things remain the same.
By 1934 Mosley was expressing strong anti-Semitic views and provocative marches through Jewish districts in London led to riots.
Mosley attracted members from other right-wing groups such as the British Fascisti, National Fascists and the Imperial Fascist League. By 1934 the BUF was able to establish its own drinking clubs and football teams.
The BUF also gained the support of Lord Rothermere and the Daily Mail. Rothermere wrote an article, Hurrah for the Blackshirts, on 22nd January, 1934, in which he praised Mosley for his "sound, commonsense, Conservative doctrine".
Funny innit. Times change but some things remain the same.
sp1814
/// The BUF also gained the support of Lord Rothermere and the Daily Mail. Rothermere wrote an article, Hurrah for the Blackshirts, on 22nd January, 1934, in which he praised Mosley for his "sound, commonsense, Conservative doctrine" ///
I wondered how long it would be before we saw yet another tiresome dig at the Daily Mail take place, but it would seem in reality that they helped to see the demise of the BUF. .
*** The BUF quickly developed the appearance of a major political party, with a membership of 40,000, but by 1934 its progress was hindered by the withdrawal of respectable support such as the Rothermere press, which is covered below. ***
*** On the 7 June 1934 the BUF held a large rally at Olympia in London, about 500 anti-fascists managed to infiltrate the hall, when they began heckling they were attacked by 1,000 black-shirted stewards. Several of the protestors were badly beaten up by the black-shirts, a public outcry ensued and Lord Rothermere and his Daily Mail newspaper withdrew its support and over the next few months membership of the BUF went into decline. ***
/// The BUF also gained the support of Lord Rothermere and the Daily Mail. Rothermere wrote an article, Hurrah for the Blackshirts, on 22nd January, 1934, in which he praised Mosley for his "sound, commonsense, Conservative doctrine" ///
I wondered how long it would be before we saw yet another tiresome dig at the Daily Mail take place, but it would seem in reality that they helped to see the demise of the BUF. .
*** The BUF quickly developed the appearance of a major political party, with a membership of 40,000, but by 1934 its progress was hindered by the withdrawal of respectable support such as the Rothermere press, which is covered below. ***
*** On the 7 June 1934 the BUF held a large rally at Olympia in London, about 500 anti-fascists managed to infiltrate the hall, when they began heckling they were attacked by 1,000 black-shirted stewards. Several of the protestors were badly beaten up by the black-shirts, a public outcry ensued and Lord Rothermere and his Daily Mail newspaper withdrew its support and over the next few months membership of the BUF went into decline. ***
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