Crosswords3 mins ago
Now See What Such Films As "12 Years A Slave" Sets Off?
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/// He and his clients have chosen their moment well. The global triumph of the movie 12 Years A Slave has thrust the sufferings of millions of Africans to the forefront of public attention, awakening many consciences about the crimes committed in the name of European and American civilisation. ///
Why should this country or any other country for that matter pay out compensation for something that happened hundreds of years ago?
/// Slavery was an unspeakably evil commerce. But many societies across the world — the ‘Land of the Free’ foremost among them — were in it up to their necks, as were a host of African tribal chieftains and Arab traders. ///
/// Britain is today at the top of the Caribbean nations’ hit-list chiefly because our government and judges are thought to be the softest touch on earth, as indeed they are. ///
/// He and his clients have chosen their moment well. The global triumph of the movie 12 Years A Slave has thrust the sufferings of millions of Africans to the forefront of public attention, awakening many consciences about the crimes committed in the name of European and American civilisation. ///
Why should this country or any other country for that matter pay out compensation for something that happened hundreds of years ago?
/// Slavery was an unspeakably evil commerce. But many societies across the world — the ‘Land of the Free’ foremost among them — were in it up to their necks, as were a host of African tribal chieftains and Arab traders. ///
/// Britain is today at the top of the Caribbean nations’ hit-list chiefly because our government and judges are thought to be the softest touch on earth, as indeed they are. ///
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i read this earlier, and wondered who would be the person to post it.
many British were captured by Pirates and sold into slavery, most never made it home. The people who lived in coastal areas were the worse hit, a figure that was put forward, though i am not sure how one verifies it, that over a long period of time, up to a million were taken by North African pirates. I am not making light of a terrible
injustice, however The Romans had slaves, the Vikings had slaves, as did African tribal leaders.
A number of the comments in the paper were just plain nonsense, some justified. But how are we responsible, to make financial reparation.
many British were captured by Pirates and sold into slavery, most never made it home. The people who lived in coastal areas were the worse hit, a figure that was put forward, though i am not sure how one verifies it, that over a long period of time, up to a million were taken by North African pirates. I am not making light of a terrible
injustice, however The Romans had slaves, the Vikings had slaves, as did African tribal leaders.
A number of the comments in the paper were just plain nonsense, some justified. But how are we responsible, to make financial reparation.
sandyr,
how about the Americans, they took slaves, and virtually wiped out the Native Americans, not a good record, The British mostly upper class, those who owned the land, plantations, took slaves, how many poor down at heel British were there at the time when African slavery started, they were in the majority, so wouldn't have had slaves, they were most likely in some form of work slavery themselves, indentured, tied to the land in Britain, Arab traders dealt in slaves, bought from African leaders, or raided from one village to another, so the Arabs were as much at fault, other nations dealt in slavery, as the article points out, they are coming in for their fair share of compensation.
how about the Americans, they took slaves, and virtually wiped out the Native Americans, not a good record, The British mostly upper class, those who owned the land, plantations, took slaves, how many poor down at heel British were there at the time when African slavery started, they were in the majority, so wouldn't have had slaves, they were most likely in some form of work slavery themselves, indentured, tied to the land in Britain, Arab traders dealt in slaves, bought from African leaders, or raided from one village to another, so the Arabs were as much at fault, other nations dealt in slavery, as the article points out, they are coming in for their fair share of compensation.
Max Hastings doesn't say the movie 'set this off' as anyone can see from the text above and would relaise the nonsense of the idea anyway.
Either aog doesn't understand English well enough to discern the difference between /thrust ... to the forefront of public attention' and 'sets off'
or he is deliberately misinterpreting because he is happy to use dishonesty to push his prejudices and vendettas.
Apologies all, but pathetic attempts to mislead people with dishonest posts really tick me off.
Either aog doesn't understand English well enough to discern the difference between /thrust ... to the forefront of public attention' and 'sets off'
or he is deliberately misinterpreting because he is happy to use dishonesty to push his prejudices and vendettas.
Apologies all, but pathetic attempts to mislead people with dishonest posts really tick me off.
Things do. I do not think these countries warrant a payout, although they are entitled to try and bring a case if they want to.
And it is right to contextualise Britains own involvement in the slave trade. But citing a list of other countries involvement does not make slavery as an institution any more palatable. It was morally repugnant then just as it is now - and I suspect most involved knew that fine well; but greed and profits soothed that nagging conscience.
And it is right to contextualise Britains own involvement in the slave trade. But citing a list of other countries involvement does not make slavery as an institution any more palatable. It was morally repugnant then just as it is now - and I suspect most involved knew that fine well; but greed and profits soothed that nagging conscience.
if you found one of your ancestors was involved in the slave trade how would that make you feel, would you feel the need to make reparation,
or supposing you find out that you are descended from slaves, would that make you believe you are entitled to compensation?
it was a bad thing, but as i have pointed out, the British were just as likely to end up the other side of the world, held as slaves until they perished. It may not have been the 10 million quoted in the article, but they became slaves all the same.
or supposing you find out that you are descended from slaves, would that make you believe you are entitled to compensation?
it was a bad thing, but as i have pointed out, the British were just as likely to end up the other side of the world, held as slaves until they perished. It may not have been the 10 million quoted in the article, but they became slaves all the same.
No-one would take issue with your point about the barbarity of the slave trade AOG - but I among others would take some issue with your proposed link between a feature film and a decision to seek recompense for acknowledged historical and cultural behaviour.
I would suggest that the people involved in this campaign did not need a film in order to jog their historial research, or to push them into intended action in terms of recompense.
Next, you'll suggest that Russia wants compensation for all the spies we have killed because they were reminded by a re-run of a few James Bond films!
I would suggest that the people involved in this campaign did not need a film in order to jog their historial research, or to push them into intended action in terms of recompense.
Next, you'll suggest that Russia wants compensation for all the spies we have killed because they were reminded by a re-run of a few James Bond films!
/if you found one of your ancestors was involved in the slave trade how would that make you feel/
all of us are indirectly
our banks and financial institutions were built on the slave trade
Lloyds shipping insurance
Much of our old manufacturing base, Tate & Lyle etc
never mind individual employment and investments
Yes we should have no problem acknowledging that
However, calculating 'compensation' is ludicrous at such a disassociated point in time
all of us are indirectly
our banks and financial institutions were built on the slave trade
Lloyds shipping insurance
Much of our old manufacturing base, Tate & Lyle etc
never mind individual employment and investments
Yes we should have no problem acknowledging that
However, calculating 'compensation' is ludicrous at such a disassociated point in time
/the same proposer for compensation for the Mau Mau... /
That is different
the crimes were within living memory
the perpetrators are identifiable because we have our own documentation
and crucially, the people who suffered criminal abuse (who were not proven Mau Mau members in the first place) are still alive to benefit from restorative justice
That is different
the crimes were within living memory
the perpetrators are identifiable because we have our own documentation
and crucially, the people who suffered criminal abuse (who were not proven Mau Mau members in the first place) are still alive to benefit from restorative justice
"if you found one of your ancestors was involved in the slave trade how would that make you feel, would you feel the need to make reparation,
or supposing you find out that you are descended from slaves, would that make you believe you are entitled to compensation?"
Me personally? Probably not. I tend to view compensation as being relevant to those who it happened to, rather than generational descendants.
Mau Mau was different, inasmuch as those bringing suit were survivors.
We live in a democracy though, under a rule of law. They have the right to bring suit here or anywhere else where the law allows them to. It remains to be seen whether the suit will be accepted or dismissed, and if accepted the court finds in their favour.
I just do not see any value in getting all indignant at a film that had little to do with the decision to bring suit ( assuming they actually do) and in advance of any court case.
or supposing you find out that you are descended from slaves, would that make you believe you are entitled to compensation?"
Me personally? Probably not. I tend to view compensation as being relevant to those who it happened to, rather than generational descendants.
Mau Mau was different, inasmuch as those bringing suit were survivors.
We live in a democracy though, under a rule of law. They have the right to bring suit here or anywhere else where the law allows them to. It remains to be seen whether the suit will be accepted or dismissed, and if accepted the court finds in their favour.
I just do not see any value in getting all indignant at a film that had little to do with the decision to bring suit ( assuming they actually do) and in advance of any court case.
Posted by someone who only the other day was bemoaning the lack of interest in News by AB'ers.
Same old, same old.
emmie
i haven't seen the film, nor do i intend to.
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Your loss emmie. Films of this nature ought to be made part of the national curriculum in secondary schools IMHO, as should Schindler's List.
Same old, same old.
emmie
i haven't seen the film, nor do i intend to.
------------------
Your loss emmie. Films of this nature ought to be made part of the national curriculum in secondary schools IMHO, as should Schindler's List.
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