Instead Of Throwing The Toys Out Of The Pram....

[ToraToraTora]

why don't the 2 main parties try and understand why UKIP are gaining popularity. Is it just possible that the general public are sick of the EU and all it stands for? Could the main parties gain a lot more support if they started to understand rather than calling any non Euphile their usual batch of names?

[emmie]

read the link

[emmie]

sp as per you jump in with both feet, not everyone agrees with you, but have the good grace to look at others viewpoints, i think the link i provided might be useful, a piece by Dominic Lawson, i know its from last year, but still worth a read
NJ responses are always helpful, i don't think we would suddenly stop trading with our EU partners if we left, and the shambles that is this freedom to roam, work where you like, go across any border, is the stuff of nightmares, ok if its all reciprocal, its not, how many British want to work in most of the member states, the obvious places would be the strong economies, but Italy, Spain, Romania, come on be sensible, whereas those who can dump themselves here, are myriad. we don't have the same economies, the same standard of living, and the same benefit system, its all fine for those politicians because at the end of the day it generally won't affect them, because once they fade out of the spotlight, and ride off into the sunset, we are left with the bill.

[New Judge]

There is too much emphasis on the business and financial advantages (which are by no means as clear cut as is made out). I imagine the CBI and IoD would prefer the status quo because in the short term our exit would cause them some inconvenience. But frankly what business leaders think of our membership is neither here nor there. It what the majority of the population wants that should hold sway. The CEOs of blue-chip companies get just one vote each - the same as everybody else.

Personally I would prefer to lose a point or two of our GDP (and of course save on our membership fees) than live in a country which has opened its borders to 10% of the planet's population (to mention but one of the disadvantages).

Any polls which incorporate Mr Cameron's "planned renegotiation" are worthless. He knows, and should be honest enough to say, that any meaningful renegotiation on the key issues that concern people, has less than a snowball in hell's chance of success. But as I said earlier, if the outcome of a plebiscite was such a foregone conclusion we’d all be down the polling booths tomorrow. I would be perfectly willing to accept the result of such a referendum and would say no more on the matter however it turned out. What annoys me more than anything is the arrogance of politicians who tell us what they believe is good for us but who do not have the courage or good grace to ask us formally.

[emmie]

they won't tell us, because they have no desire to leave.

[sp1814]

New Judge

I don't believe the general public have had the advantages of membership laid out.

Personally, I would rather stay in, because I wouldn't want to lose the advantages gained by negotiating position being part of the world's largest trading block.

But here's the thing...why should the Conservatives, Labour and Liberal parties change their policies?

Do people assume that we all want to exit the EU?

If people want us to have a referendum on leaving the EU, then they should vote for UKIP.

Everyone needs to realise that not everyone wants out of Europe. If you do, then you have the opportunity at the next elections to vote for UKIP.

...unless of course people suspect that UKIP could not possibly govern the country due to the fact that few people know what they are for, rather than what they are not for.

[sp1814]

emmie

I have expressed my view. Please understand that whilst I may not agree with your point of view, I have every right to express mine.

[emmie]

you forget that we were promised a referendum -

[emmie]

and i suggested that if you had looked at the link, it gives somewhat different points, you quoted the CBI, but that would likely be their stance, as per NJ's post.

[Orderlimit]

'Everyone needs to realise that not everyone wants out of Europe'

Surely a referendum is the democratic way of decide?

[emmie]

it is, and we have been promised one

[sp1814]

emmie

I know the arguments against EU membership.

What I was putting forward was an alternative point of view.

I don't see the point of discussion something as important as our membership of the EU without people putting across different ideas.

I'm sure you understand that others have viewpoints different from your own, and appreciate that debate has to be made up of different people putting across different ideas...?

[sp1814]

By the way, I am not saying that we shouldn't have a referendum...I am just concerned that the question needs to be a lot more granular than yes / no.

[emmie]

but you don;t seem to think that firstly we should quit, nor indeed that the EU is a bad thing, that we would sink without trace if we leave,
and Lawsons piece is quite well put

[emmie]

what were we promised, a wishy washy vote, perhaps, maybe leave, or a yes or no vote, surely it is up to the British people to decide, its what Cameron promised, and has been back pedalling ever since. put off time and again,

[sp1814]

emmie

That's my point of view.

I fail to see what the problem is with that.

You have your point of view, and I have laid out mine.

[emmie]

so more of the same bull s hite from the politicians, they won't do anything, they don't have the cojones.

[sp1814]

emmie

Who are you talking to?

I hope you understand my point...which is that I don't think that we have been furnished with a balanced narrative on Europe.

I would welcome a referendum, and would vote very much to stay in.

If you want a referendum, then you should be over the moon that UKIP are there ready for your vote. I don't see what the problem is - you now have the perfect opportunity to make your voice heard...and those of us who are happy to stay in Europe have the opportunity to *not* vote for UKIP.

So...everyone should be happy, right?

[emmie]

this has nothing at all to do with UKIP<

[sp1814]

emmie

I dont understand what you mean.

Why not vote UKIP if you are unhappy with our membership of EU?

Unless I've misread you.

[emmie]

how is voting for UKIP in the coming election going to change our membership.