Instead Of Throwing The Toys Out Of The Pram....

[ToraToraTora]

why don't the 2 main parties try and understand why UKIP are gaining popularity. Is it just possible that the general public are sick of the EU and all it stands for? Could the main parties gain a lot more support if they started to understand rather than calling any non Euphile their usual batch of names?

[emmie]

Cameron said that he would, if he wins the next general election give the country the vote, so even if i tick the box for UKIP, they won't be part and parcel of the general election. i can use my coming vote for UKIP but i don't think it will make any difference

[sp1814]

emmie

No...I meant the next General Election.

I'm sure that those who are vehemently opposed to our membership will vote UKIP at the next local elections, European elections and General Election.

Surely that would make everyone happy.

The way I see it is that my view is just as valid as anyone else's...and I find it very disappointing when some are unable to appreciate that my view is just as valid as there's.

[sp1814]

emmie

If you vote Conservative and believe that they will give you a referendum, then your argument is with the Conservative hierarchy.

If you want to be guaranteed referendum, then vote UKIP at the next General Election.

Isn't that reasonable.

[emmie]

i don;t think they will do well at the general election, and in fact this would likely go to Labour if tory supporters start switching to UKIP

[Farriercm]

Dave has made it Very clear to us all you only get a referendum if you vote him into Power,in 2015.

[emmie]

there is no guaranteed referendum, and farage has little say in it,
Cameron was the one who promised, dependent on his winning the general election, which isn't a given, so i am not sure how farage who's party may have support, but not seats in the commons will influence matters. it seems unlikely to be a con/ukip party coalition, so if next election winners are labour, we won't get any referendum, Milliband doesn't want a no vote.

[sp1814]

emmie

Well, that's the way democracy works.

Perhaps UKIP need to start talking about other important issues, apart from the EU?

[emmie]

that has been my point all along, which you seem to fail to grasp, that this isn;t about UKIP, its about the tories and Cameron promising something that will not come about

[sp1814]

emmie

Believe me - there has never been anything you've ever written on AB that I have 'failed to grasp'.

I was given an alternate point of view, to which you responded with:

"sp as per you jump in with both feet, not everyone agrees with you, but have the good grace to look at others viewpoints".

I have listened to other arguments and have come to my own conclusions. Have the good grace to accept that, even if you do not agree with me.

[Gromit]

// you forget that we were promised a referendum //

Were we? when? Did you read the small print?

[emmie]

yes, did you.

[vulcan42]

sp \\I don't believe the general public have had the advantages of membership laid out. //
Surely if the EU is so advantageous the first thing any pro government would do is point out what those advantages are. The fact that they haven't speaks volumes.

[emmie]

the government believes that by and large we are better in than out, as do the Lib Dems and Labour, they see our future as wholly tied to the EU, its whether some of the regulations, laws, can be renegotiated, we should be able to leave without the sky falling in on us, however no matter how well UKIP does in the coming election, or Cameron's promise if he wins the next general election, nothing will change, they don't want it to.

[mikey4444]

emmie...I agree, especially the "no matter how well UKIP does in the coming election" bit !

[emmie]

whether they do well or not i won't make a jot of difference, the main parties still hold sway in Britain, its only a matter of which does better in the coming months.

[New Judge]

We seem to be missing a somewhat important point here. The question of the UK’s continued membership is now beyond a party issue. The fact is that huge amounts of powers have been ceded to a foreign authority without the specific consent of the electorate. Of course nothing as straightforward as an admission of this would be forthcoming - that’s not the way the EU works. But it is a fact nonetheless and anybody who believes otherwise is under a delusion.

The UK Parliament is not entitled to do such a thing without consent and merely saying that MPs have been elected and have voted the matter through is completely beside the point. If it was proposed that the UK moved from its position in December 1972 to today in one hit there would be outrage. Imagine if all the measures which have removed powers from the UK Parliament were imposed along with our membership of the “Common Market” on 1st January 1973. But over the past forty years successive governments have ceded these powers, bit by bit. Now, belatedly, the issue is causing concern. It is not a matter for Parliament, nor is it one for political parties. It is the electorate who should have a direct say on our continued membership because that membership has relinquished and is continuing to relinquish more and more sovereignty to an unelected foreign organisation.

If that’s what the majority of people want, then fine. But they should be asked (and it should be a simple “in” or “out” question. There is no room for fudge as the issue is quite straightforward). And they should be asked now. As I said earlier, if the EU is such a wonderful institution providing great benefits for us all, there should be no problem securing and "in" vote so I don't know what the problem is.

[Brenden]

The EU will not be happy bunnies if Nigel wins - oh happy days.

[mikey4444]

I agree with everything that you say NJ, but in all the Polls I have seen, it would appear that if a referendum was held today, most people would vote to stay in :::

http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/dzxvvpa5om/YG-Archives-Pol-Trackers-Europe-Referendum-220414.pdf

Not huge majority of course, I will admit. But if people really want a chance to vote in a referendum, then they had better vote Tory in May 2015, as the only other Party with a realistic chance of winning, Labour, have shown no enthusiasm for letting us make our views known.