If

[DrFilth]

with all the benefit sanctions if the food banks shut what are people supposed to do ?

what would you do if there are no jobs and you are hungry ?


http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/west-end-food-bank-saved-7130560

[DrFilth]

r1 > Benefits are not stopped <

you must be on a different planet to the rest of us

[DrFilth]

they even had sanctions in 2011

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2011/apr/08/jobcentres-benefits-sanctions-targets

[New Judge]

You've now introduced another (somewhat rhetorical) question, Dr F.

Initially it was

"with all the benefit sanctions if the food banks shut what are people supposed to do ?

what would you do if there are no jobs and you are hungry ? "

which I read to be "if benefits are reduced (as I have agreed one or two have been by a small amount) and the food banks shut, what would you do (with work not being an option)"

My suggestion was that many, if not most, people currently on benefits could adjust their lifestyles slightly to accommodate the slight change in benefits. (An option not really open to people fifty or sixty years ago without real hardship).

Now we have a different scenario:

"...what would you do if they stopped your benefit ahd there was NO JOBS"

So now we are asked to consider what would happen if benefits were stopped. As I said, somewhat rhetorical because as far as I know not even this current government (according to some accounts the most vicious and evil the world has ever known), nor any that is likely to be formed in the near future, is suggesting that benefits might be stopped.

Oh, and by the way, there are jobs. Half a million people a year arrive to settle in the UK and, as we are constantly led to believe, many of them find jobs.

[LyndaB]

Here here judge. The voice of reason xx

[mikey4444]

I can only go by the one that I assist at, and it would seem to me that as most of our clients are desperate, they would have to resort to shop-lifting, in order to survive.

But we have no intention whatsoever of closing, you will be glad to hear, as we have the most generous of donors, especially the main supermarkets, Tesco being the best example.

[DrFilth]

New Judge read the header i have not introduced another (somewhat rhetorical) question


there are plenty of people that have had there money stopped new judge hence the original question

[mikey4444]

New Judge...You have given your views on Food Banks before. Can I respectfully suggest that you put down the keyboard and find out for yourself what the actual situation is. Your local Food Bank would welcome you with open arms.

When I joined mine, I explained that I couldn't possibly be involved with any religious aspects, which they readily agreed with. These people work hard to help people out, and they deserve every plaudit that they can get. I only assist in a minor way, mainly collecting donations in my car.

Have a look at this website :::

http://www.trusselltrust.org/

Perhaps after donating a few hours of your time, you may lose that jaundiced view of yours. Its only a suggestion. In my experience, you can't beat first hand knowledge, when looking for the truth.

[anotheoldgit]

Vote UKIP

[New Judge]

I'm assuming you include the cessation of benefits as a "sanction" Dr F. That's not quite what I had in mind but I'll accept your definition.

Regards your link. Just as I'm sure you would be the first to point out that people should beware of what they read in the Daily Mail, they should also be somewhat circumspect when reading the Grauniad. Each journal has its own (quite different) agenda). You suggest that benefit sanctions have been going on since as long ago as 2011. In fact, if you read the article, you will see it is suggested that the apparent "targeting" of vulnerable individuals to get them off benefits had been going on since 2009 -a year before the Coalition came to power. So it seems this is not a party issue.

Anyway, as recent figures suggest, measures taken to reduce the benefit bill by disqualifying people from claiming benefits seems to be paying off. Large numbers of them (particularly among those claiming to be too sick or disabled to work) have managed to find jobs since being assessed as fit to work. It seems to have concentrated their minds. It is quite clear that that particular benefit was, and almost certainly still is, being widely abused (though not by everybody and those really unable to work because of illness or disability need all the help they can get - of which there would be more if people did not abuse the system). The example of "White Dee" holidaying in Magaluf whilst apparently too ill to work is just one of, I suspect, very many.

So your question moves from being rhetorical to hypothetical and I can't really help much with that because the hypothesis is too incredible. To make it more understandable for me perhaps you could help by telling me what has happened to all these people that have found themselves suddenly without benefits and without work. Have they all died? If so I must have missed it on the news. I can find one example:

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/feb/28/man-starved-to-death-after-benefits-cut

and any death is very regrettable. However, reading the report (which was in the Guardian) I cannot be entirely sure that this death was caused solely by lack of benefits. Having said that, the quality of the assessments currently being carried on those claiming sickness benefits seems to leave a little to be desired, but the principle is sound and necessary.

[mikey4444]

AOG...and waste your vote ! Yeah, thats going to really help isn't ?

[mushroom25]

//AOG...and waste your vote ! Yeah, thats going to really help isn't ? //

who's to say Mikey? if when the votes are counted next sunday, UKIP are found to have pushed one of the major parties down the running order, would you be offended to be told "we told you so"?

[mikey4444]

Mush.....UKIP may indeed do well at next Thursday Euro Poll, as the voting system favours minor, loony-tune parties...how else could the BNP ever hope to have 2 MEPs in Brussels ? They could never in a million years get even one MEP if first-past-the-post was used.

But the forthcoming Euro elections are just not important compared to the May 2015. That is the Poll that will decide Britain's future until 2021, and UKIP will not win many, if any seats, so voting for them is a waste of time.
All it will achieve is to let in one of the 3 main parties in the constituency.

Sorry to keep bringing logic and rational into this debate ... I can see it inconvenient for some on here.

[whirlyhurly]

Tora Tora Tora, will you please understand that benefits Are stopped, and folk are sanctioned for the flimsiest of reasons. And but for help from family some would have to resort to dire measures to pay not only for food but all the utilities etc.

[DrFilth]

New Judge
> Anyway, as recent figures suggest, measures taken to reduce the benefit bill by disqualifying people from claiming benefits seems to be paying off. Large numbers of them (particularly among those claiming to be too sick or disabled to work) have managed to find jobs since being assessed as fit to work. <

managed to find jobs you must be joking , it would cost some people more money to claim than the money they can claim and that is the truth not from any paper but from personal experience

i speak from personal experience after dealing with the dwp and atos do you ?

[anneasquith]

yet another Q. to allow some to have a moan about people on benefits, some people do qualify for benefits and do not have '' the life of riley ''

[whirlyhurly]

My sympathy DrFilth as (thank heavens not me) I also know of people who are in the same situation as you've been. Trying to get some people to understand life at the lower end of the spectrum, is like knocking your head against a brick wall.

[smurfchops]

Govt should hand out food stamps or vouchers instead of cash. Then people can buy food with these when they are hungry instead of fags, large TVs and new mobile phones. Perhaps get a job, any job, if they want the luxuries.

[DrFilth]

new judge have a look on google

Crawley man killed himself after losing benefits (From The ...
www.theargus.co.uk/.../10649155.Crawley_man_killed_himself_after_lo...
3 Sep 2013 - A protest was staged in memory of a Crawley man who committed suicide after losing his benefits.
Benefit cuts blind man committed suicide after Atos ruled ...

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk.../benefit-cuts-blind-man-committed-296537...
28 Dec 2013 - Desperate: Tim Salter killed himself after his benefits were slashed ... were damaged when he tried to kill himself in 1989 after losing his job.
Grandad shoots himself after finding out his benefits were ...
www.mirror.co.uk/.../grandad-shaun-pilkington-shoots-himself-2989685

5 Jan 2014 - Grandad shoots himself after finding out his benefits were being stopped ... Shaun Pilkington, 58, was sent a letter saying he was to lose his Employment and Support Allowance, which he got after a ... He was a lovely man.
Disabled Kinver man killed himself after being left "almost ...

www.stourbridgenews.co.uk/.../10892787.Disabled_Kinver_man_killed...
26 Dec 2013 - A DISABLED Kinver man killed himself after his state benefits were stopped, leaving him "almost destitute" ... “Cuts to benefits are causing distress very widely, including to many of our customers. .... sorry it's loosing the money.
Sheffield man killed himself over benefits fears - The Star
www.thestar.co.uk/.../sheffield-man-killed-himself-over-benefits-fears-1-...

6 Jan 2014 - A gamekeeper from Sheffield killed himself fearing he was to lose his ... aged 58, shot himself after receiving a letter warning he could lose his ...
Man Shoots Himself Dead After Sickness Benefits Stopped
welfarenewsservice.com/man-shoots-dead-sickness-benefits-stopped/

5 Jan 2014 - Man Shoots Himself Dead After Sickness Benefits Stopped ... more and more depressed, fearful that he would lose his sickness benefit.
Vulnerable man starved to death after benefits were cut ...
www.theguardian.com › News › Society › Benefits
by Amelia Gentleman - in 97 Google+ circles

28 Feb 2014 - 44-year-old died months after sickness and housing benefits were ... The family of a man who starved to death four months after his benefits were cut off ... than my brother should have been told that he had lost his benefits.
Lee Robinson from Crawley killed himself... - Respect For ...
https://en-gb.facebook.com/Respect.../posts/541579609229247
Lee Robinson from Crawley killed himself after losing #benefits ... was staged in memory of a Crawley man who committed suicide after losing his benefits.
Disabled Nottingham man killed himself after his benefits were
blacktrianglecampaign.org/.../disabled-nottingham-man-killed-himself-af...

9 Oct 2013 - Labour will be tougher than IDS on benefits, promises party's new welfare ... Disabled Nottingham man killed himself after his benefits were ...
Half-blind woman crippled with back pain killed herself after ...
www.dailymail.co.uk/.../Half-blind-woman-crippled-pain-killed-benefits...

25 Nov 2013 - Half-blind woman crippled with back pain killed herself after benefits bosses ... people - could be in danger of losing their benefits as they would be put through ... Revealed: The true face of the Zodiac Killer - adopted man.

[anneasquith]

dr, filth, some people are not in the least bit interested in your data. not when they can be discussing the size of tv screens and fags ! :(

[DrFilth]

anneasquith and some have no idea what is happening in the real world

ToraToraTora
> Benefits are not stopped