Now We Know

[scooping]

Know we know that I.S are decapitating people, sticking their heads on on posts, slaughtering men and boys, selling women and girls into sexual slavery, might it be O.K for idiot Lefties if we took some action - without their bleating that it's all about oil.

[naomi24]

Gromit, from the OP....//I.S are decapitating people, sticking their heads on on posts, slaughtering men and boys, selling women and girls into sexual slavery// ...... and murdering anyone who refuses to convert to Islam .... and that appalling barbarism is somehow our fault? I think not.

[dave50]

Why are there no demonstrations on the streets of London like there was against Israel?

[jim360]

It would be an overstatement to say that this entire mess is "our fault", sure, but there is at least some responsibility the West has to accept for the way their Middle East policies have played out. In the first place the invasion of Iraq did leave behind a very unstable country with an effective power vacuum and surely there were better outcomes possible if more thought had gone into controlling the aftermath of Saddam's inevitable defeat. On the other side of the coin the non-intervention in Syria has had some consequences. I don't think arming what is now ISIS was ever on the cards but the situation there, left to its own devices, has evolved into something that is at least a three-side War as the Islamic militants can be regarded as separate from the Free Syrian Army, and both are fighting Assad and each other. An intervention there set up as a peacekeeping mission to force what was then both sides to come to the table might have allowed events to play out differently in a way that again stopped parts of Syria from becoming a power vacuum.

What is absolutely not the West's fault is the sort of group that has stepped in to fill this vacuum, and we shouldn't take any responsibility for the barbarous acts they are committing. But that we played some indirect part in the rise of ISIS/ Islamic State is unarguable, I'd have thought. It's probably important to acknowledge this because then the "it's our mess and we should play a significant role in justifying increased military involvement.

[sp1814]

jim360

I agree wholeheartedly with your extremely well thought out and intelligently considered analysis/conclusion.

This 'left vs right' narrative is getting a little tired.

[jim360]

Thanks -- the last part of that message has got a bit garbled, should read:

'... then the "it's our mess and we should clear it up" argument is valid and can be used to justify increased military involvement.'

or something along those lines.

[youngmafbog]

Well you would say that SP, as the left invaded Iraq ;-)

But that aside, ISIS would have evolved somewhere after all their predecessors al Quad a were around for some time before.

What might be useful is them in a State, that is stationary. One problem with them in the past has been locating small groups of people on the move. Once they settle we have a target.

Without doubt boot s will have to be on the ground, and I would be very surprised if special forces are not there already if only assessing the situation. It will get worse and it will have to be sorted, but even if we do it will not address the underlying issue of Islamic fundamentalism.

[Kromovaracun]

I'm really not convinced that intervening will do anything to help Iraq. We've had more than enough chances to help Iraq, and we bodged it every time.

Let's say the West intervenes and squashes IS like a bug, then goes home mission accomplished. Iraq will still be defended by the same army that fled from 6-10,000 people and *everyone will know*. In that part of the world, I think that's pretty close to a death sentence.

[jno]

Well you would say that SP, as the left invaded Iraq

Thatcher did. The "left" tried to clean up the mess, now the "right" is trying to do so. Both suffered from their eagerness to follow America to war. sp1814 is right, turning this into left v right is pointless.