Parliament Has It's First U K I P Member

[ChillDoubt]

Douglas Carswell has won the Clacton seat following his defection from the Tories to UKIP and by some margin it would appear.

Link and full voting breakdown to follow.

[Zacs-Master]

I really don't follow your logic there Blackadder.

[BlackadderV]

My logic is that more people voted against Labour than for them, yet Labour won.

[jomifl]

Well that's the British electorate for you...sadly.

[Zacs-Master]

I don't think you can extrapolate one result into a national trend.

[Gromit]

BlackadderV

The electorate elected more none Tory MPs than Tories in 2010.

Under first past the post, the winner only needs to win by one vote to get the seat, and more often than not the votes of the total of those not voting for the winner, are greater than those who won.

[Kromovaracun]

"We now have a clearly electable party for those who want out of Europe. "

I disagree with your assessment of them as "electable." Having an MP does not mean you are electable. Miliband's Labour is frequently (and rightly) denounced as unelectable - and they have considerably more than one MP.

[youngmafbog]

//"We now have a clearly electable party for those who want out of Europe. " //

As I am sure you are very well aware UKIP although increasingly an influential party they could not, at present, form a Government.

[sp1814]

Chilldoubt

You wrote:

"One would surmise from sp's post that he knew exactly how 'we all' feel when it comes to immigration."

Yes I do.

We all have varied stances on immigration and the EU.

I wrote:

"The problem with those who support the ideals of UKIP is that they fail to understand that the party does NOT represent the way that we all feel on Europe and immigration".

UKIP does not represent the way that we all feel on Europe and immigration. If they did, then they would represent the way that every voter feels. And 'we all' do not have exactly the same opinions.

Hands up who think we do.

I am really interested to hear a response on this, because what is being presented is the idea that UKIP speaks for all of us.

I'm saying it does not.

I would be saddened to hear that UKIP supporters don't understand that there are those who don't share their views, and it would support the contention I rasied in my earlier post.

Please disappoint me!

[sp1814]

youngmafbog

You wrote:

"As I am sure you are very well aware UKIP although increasingly an influential party they could not, at present, form a Government."

Why not?

[mikey4444]

UKIP is a one-issue party..to get out of the EU. Farage has admitted this on a number of occasions. He has even gone as far as saying that if Britain leaves the EU, UKIP can disband, "because their job will have been done" But he can't ever be able to achieve this, because he will never form a majority Government in Britain.

I have a distinct feeling of Deja Vu here but if most of the people that voted UKIP yesterday did so because they want to leave the EU, why waste votes on a party that can never bring about what you want ? If people are so keen to leave the EU, as another thread on here today might suggest, then they need to vote for the only party that has the remotest chance of giving us a referendum and consequently leave Europe. That is the Tories.

What has this sole ex-Tory MP, and now UKIP MP actually achieved in Clacton yesterday ? He has reduced the Tory count at Westminster by 1 seat. Big deal !

[sp1814]

Kromovaracun

I have to disagree with you. Whilst I myself could never see myself voting for UKIP, they are clearly electable, insomuch that they now have an elected MP.

In this sense, I'm not using the word 'electable' as a value statement...just a statement of fact. UKIP now have the infrastructure in place to launch a nationwide push for MPs during the general election.

Personally, if I could take a photocopy of Britain, and engineer it so that UKIP won the next GE, I would - just to see what happens when Major Benji takes over at the Foreign Office, or

[-Talbot-]

You're right it is a big deal!

[Zeuhl]

/Splitting hairs Zeuhl.

One would surmise from sp's post that he knew exactly how 'we all' feel when it comes to immigration./

on the contrary chill

accuracy, not splitting hairs

sp wrote that UKIP didn't represent the views of 'All' people

which is clearly true

I didn't see sp claim that he did represent 'all', only that he knew there was diversity of opinion

[sp1814]

, or Gladys Penright-Pugh is given the responsibility for galvanising manufacturing growth in the South East.

It's be like a great lost BBC 1970s sitcom.

...possibly written by Perry and Croft.

[sp1814]

Thanks Zeuhl...I re-read my earlier post to see whether I could see what Chilldoubt meant.

I think he/she misunderstood what I was getting at.

[mikey4444]

Farage's latest foot-in-mouth is that he wants Britain to ban AIDs sufferers from coming Britain :::::

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29565766

[sp1814]

mikey4444

My understanding is that UKIP want to light a fire under the two main parties (let's forget the LibDems for now) to force a referendum...the idea being that if enough votes were lost from Labour and the Tories, they would be forced to confront the issue of Europe.

I personally think that the two main parties should call UKIP's bluff. The problem is - the Tories are WAY too split to give us a referendum. Remember - large corporations LOVE Europe with its free and easy movement of trade and human resources. The Tories simply cannot afford to snub its big donors.

And Labour just isn't Eurosceptic.

So...given that - why not let UKIP stand its ground and fight on its Eurosceptic ticket.

If they can form a government - then so be it.

Again - it *would* be very 1970s sitcom-ish.

If only Arthur Lowe were still around...

[mikey4444]

As I understand it SP, dave has already said that a future Tory Government will hold an in/out EU referendum. So I still can't see the point in voting for UKIP, the one-issue Party. Farage will have to light an awful lots of fires in the near future to set anything on fire apart from his own pants.

[Zeuhl]

To play the 'casting game' and as Dads Army is in the news:

how about Bill Pertwee (Warden Hodges) as Nigel Farage

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[Zeuhl]

sorry ed


http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CAQQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fnews%2Farticle-2512566%2FDads-Army-star-Bill-Pertwee-left-400-000-actor-son.html&ei=x_s3VPi1A8X5aqSJgPAB&bvm=bv.76943099,d.d2s&;psig=AFQjCNEnFNn86R2E75uvmOWykuuQoDxZlg&ust=1413041479095299