Unite Union Avoiding Tax

[lindapalmara]

Just as Ed thought he was safe because his major donor was a union, it's coming out of the woodwork now, plus the likes of his other millionaire's, eg.Sir David Gerrard and Lord Paul

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2955038/ANDREW-PIERCE-union-comrades-avoiding-tax.html

[Gromit]

People in glass houses...

Miliband was stupid to attack the Tories on donors unless he was cast iron sure that his own donors were whiter than white. It was a good bet that they weren't.
The people involved in strategy in Miliband's regime appear to be totally inept. People who want rid of the coalition want to hear about policies not attacks on funders.

[factor-fiction]

Even the late, great Tony Benn (I always liked him) used devices to save huge amounts of tax on his estate
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/tax/11189430/Tony-Benns-inheritance-tax-dodge-how-it-works-and-how-you-can-use-it-too.html
And the deed of variation used by the Milibands to change their father's will after he died was done as tax avoidance/tax efficiency measure.

Most people with a lot of wealth will do it, whether Labour or Tory

[youngmafbog]

anyone, if they can, will avoid paying more tax than possible. This is avoidance not evasion so Millband was ill advised by his advisors on this one, although you do have to question Ed's intelligence too. Surely knowing his own family had utilised efficient tax measures he should have guessed other had too.

Of course, with labour we must remember it is do as I say, not as I do.

[whiskeryron]

I agree that ALL tax dodgers should be brought to book but may I suggest that if we could, wouldn't we all try & find a legal way to pay less tax ?

[lindapalmara]

I think they should all draw a line under using this in their campaigns and cncentrate on real issues whist trying to recover the billions of revenue lost under both governments. Both sides knew about HSBC. I can't believe Balls didn't act and I definitely can't believe Cameron cosies up to Green.

Let's move on. I see Balls is digging himself into big hole telling everyone they should get paperwork even if a bloke down the road cuts your hedge for a tenner. What will you do then?m knock on his door at the end of the year and ask if he's declared it for tax?? Cuckoo land!

[joggerjayne]

We've always known that the Trots are as bent as three pound notes, and take hypocrisy to a whole new level.

As for Tony Benn ... I admire some things about him ... but ...

I'm a Leftie, so I no longer want to be a Viscount ... but I will keep the money please, and I'm not going to share it with any of you "less well off" types. What do you think I am? Some sort of Leftie? Err, oh, damn.

[Old_Geezer]

The meaning of avoidance seems to have changed to mean, not actual and perfectly reasonable avoidance, but just that which avoids tax that the tax lawmakers intended would be paid. And I think defining that, drawing the line between what is and is not intended, is not easy. The taxman can claim any avoidance concerned tax that was intended to be paid, if they so desired. It is only the extreme obvious cases where there is a major issue, with large amounts being avoided by convoluted set-ups.

I can't believe it is that difficult to legislate to ensure the largest loopholes aren't plugged, and the rest not worth the hassle of chasing.

[Old_Geezer]

One other point, it is unreasonable to expect those with moral qualms about the system not to take advantage of what is already allowed whilst those continue to to do and just mock. The problem is the system, to not take advantage whilst the unethical do so is merely self flagellation.

[Gromit]

JJ

There is no stipulation when anyone joins the Labour Party that they should share their wealth. Perhaps you are mistaking them for the Communist Party?

[woofgang]

tis simple OG Tax avoidance uses legal methods to avoid paying tax. Tax evasion uses illegal methods to avoid paying tax. If you have an ISA then you are a tax avoider!

[lindapalmara]

OG I can bearly understand your last post so how are ordinary people suppose to understand the UK Tax law.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/6146911/UK-has-longest-tax-code-handbook-in-the-world.html

[joggerjayne]

Gromit ...

I accept that. As long as they stop banging on about the tax burden having to fall on the most well off.

The Trots seem to think that, if your house is worth a couple of £m, you should pay tax for the benefit of those less well off.

Whereas, if you have a cool £5m to your name, and you are a Trot ... well, maybe the "less well off" are not such a priority after all.

[Gromit]

JJ,
The value of the property only comes into play if you die and want to pass it on. The person receiving such a valuable asset would pay tax on their windfall.
If you have £5million in your pocket you can keep it there. It is when that £5million starts earning you more money that the taxman wants a cut.

[factor-fiction]

I think JJ may be referring to the proposals regarding 'Mansion' taxes

[jno]

avoiding tax is fine. Nobody has to pay the government more than it is entitled to. The government can change the rules if it wants, but it prefers not to; it is easier to target fat benefit claimants than rich ones.

[joggerjayne]

I was, ff

The Trots raise a big "Hooraah" over any new proposal that people with money should hand some of it over (toasting the proposal with their Champagne glasses, no doubt).

In the meantime, by way of "setting a good example" one of the spiritual leaders of the far Left makes jolly sure that none of his wealth falls into the hands of those grubby, work shy, "less well off" people. "It's mine, I tell you ... ALL MINE!!!! ... Now get your hands OFF it!!"

[Old_Geezer]

Illegal evasion was not what I was discussing Woolfie. It is the difference between avoidance which is fine, and avoidance which is morally questionable; and the way that the meaning of "avoidance" seems to have changed of late to refer only to the latter.

[factor-fiction]

The line seems clear to many people, O_G. When we avoid tax it's a sensible measure. When someone who is better off than us does it then it's immoral

[woofgang]

if the avoidance is legal then I don't think that morality comes into it. I do think that of late the attitude of some people seems to be "If I do it its fine, if you do it you are an immoral fat cat and lower than the gutter."

[Old_Geezer]

So you are ok with large corporations such as Google extracting loads of wealth from this country but not paying back a fair amount of tax, thus expecting the rest of us to cover their fair share ?

I don't believe one can expect commercial corporations to act morally, they only see profit for the owners and 'blow' the rest of you. But it is morally reprehensible. The governments ought to ensure no large get-outs for them.

As for individuals. It's not so very different, but perhaps more difficult to spot. If one is moving stuff around purely to decrease what would otherwise be a reasonable contribution to the public kitty, rather than actually get involved in whatever the reason for the tax concession was for, then that is questionable morally.

Less so if the involvement actually achieves whatever good the government hoped for from the concession, but certainly not if the money merely collects a concession and then is withdrawn again, or some such sleight of hand.