ChatterBank0 min ago
Transgender Children Under Ten Years Old?
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How can they possibly know for certain at their age? They are nowhere near puberty yet. The whole thing is ridiculous.
How can they possibly know for certain at their age? They are nowhere near puberty yet. The whole thing is ridiculous.
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i) No.
ii) I think in one of the cases, yes -- indeed, the mother and her (female) partner were even concerned that their same-sex relationship might be in part behind this. On the other hand, it has lasted for a few years so if it's just a phase it's a very long one; and her two older sons haven't shown the same tendencies. While it's possible that "Jessica's" being younger has a part to play, the point is that there is certainly no lack of awareness about possible external factors.
The trick, then, is to give such children a welcoming environment in which to explore themselves and their identity, free from prejudice one way or another. Worst case scenario, they've got it wrong and in a coupe of years you'll need to buy a new wardrobe; by contrast suppressing something that was actually real creates a huge amount of damage down the line.
ii) I think in one of the cases, yes -- indeed, the mother and her (female) partner were even concerned that their same-sex relationship might be in part behind this. On the other hand, it has lasted for a few years so if it's just a phase it's a very long one; and her two older sons haven't shown the same tendencies. While it's possible that "Jessica's" being younger has a part to play, the point is that there is certainly no lack of awareness about possible external factors.
The trick, then, is to give such children a welcoming environment in which to explore themselves and their identity, free from prejudice one way or another. Worst case scenario, they've got it wrong and in a coupe of years you'll need to buy a new wardrobe; by contrast suppressing something that was actually real creates a huge amount of damage down the line.
jim -nothing is black and white -just as there are genuine children with ADHD then there will be children with genuine gender issues -its a medical fact. There are also parents who prefer to have a child with a serious transgender 'problem' than have one that's just a little bit eccentric, a tomboy or a sensitive young boy.
OG -- in general I'd agree that it's dangerous to rush into such things, and indeed the experts also agree. The usual procedure is not to opt for anything so drastic as surgery but to play a sort of waiting game, holding off puberty for a few years so as to give the child time to make a choice -- including the choice to retain their birth gender -- without worrying too much about being "too late". Transwomen who have been through male puberty, or vice versa, may find some physical changes very difficult to undo.
Even this postponement might be argued to be too early for an intervention, of course, but it's a judgement call.
Even this postponement might be argued to be too early for an intervention, of course, but it's a judgement call.
Retro -- fair enough, on occasion you'll have pushy parents, perhaps. Particularly this seems likely in the few cases that, say, the parents have explicitly chosen to raise their child in an "agender" way, before it's even been born. That is pushy, to be sure.
There is no evidence at all to suggest that's what is happening here. It was the child who pushed, the parents initially talk of resisting before then allowing the child to be free to explore who they are. That's not attention-seeking by any stretch of the imagination, and so TTT's opinion in these cases, and in most others, is wholly without foundation.
There is no evidence at all to suggest that's what is happening here. It was the child who pushed, the parents initially talk of resisting before then allowing the child to be free to explore who they are. That's not attention-seeking by any stretch of the imagination, and so TTT's opinion in these cases, and in most others, is wholly without foundation.
Doesn't that come under "letting them explore their identity?"
I'm not saying that the conversation should be so pathetically short as: "Mum I want to buy a dress. "Sure Kevin, pink and frilly or this tasteful blue number?" -- but then constantly ignoring it and forcing them to do the same is the exact opposite of helpful; and makes more of an issue than allowing it to "play out".
I'm not saying that the conversation should be so pathetically short as: "Mum I want to buy a dress. "Sure Kevin, pink and frilly or this tasteful blue number?" -- but then constantly ignoring it and forcing them to do the same is the exact opposite of helpful; and makes more of an issue than allowing it to "play out".
Thanks for the rapid response, Mamyalynne.
Although "…to please Dad or School etc " gives me pause. Since when has pleasing a parent or the school been anywhere near the top of a typical kid's priority list?
Am I reading that right? They flip gender behaviour according to whether they are by themselves or are being observed by e.g. dad or the school?
Could that convert to schizoid behaviour at an older age?
Although "…to please Dad or School etc " gives me pause. Since when has pleasing a parent or the school been anywhere near the top of a typical kid's priority list?
Am I reading that right? They flip gender behaviour according to whether they are by themselves or are being observed by e.g. dad or the school?
Could that convert to schizoid behaviour at an older age?
This particular boy (I'll call him) was very interesting, he knew Dad was less approving than Mum so didn't push it, he had a section of his bedroom with beautiful silks and pretty clothes.
Most interesting of all, when Louis asked him what of the future, he said he was sure he would be a man and get married and have children.
So that is one very individual case that IMO needs no action in the clinical sense, just time until he decides where he is in life.
There was no angst or worry ,most fascinating.
Most interesting of all, when Louis asked him what of the future, he said he was sure he would be a man and get married and have children.
So that is one very individual case that IMO needs no action in the clinical sense, just time until he decides where he is in life.
There was no angst or worry ,most fascinating.
My sister had six boys, 5 were perfectly "normal" 1 is now in transition to a female, they all had identical upbringings, very stable and happy parents and very well respected and no way is anybody attention seeking, the parents are quite happy with the transition as am I and my nephew says that he always knew he was a female inside, he is now in his mid teens and an excellent beauty therapist. The only thing I find a bit strange about him, is he recently bumped into Katie Hopkins at a railway station, he approached her, she bought him a coffee and they both sat and chatted while waiting for a train, he/she thinks Katie Hopkins is delightful!!
Again, jumping to conclusions without reading the story -- pro tip, TTT, actually read the article (or at least be aware the salient points) before commenting.
The three children were conceived by and born into a family with a mother and a father, at the time in a stable relationship. Since then, however, the mother and father split up, and the mother has now ended up in a relationship with another woman. As I commented earlier, they are well aware of the circumstances and have even considered that the same-sex relationship has played its part. Given the two elder brothers, neither of whom has shown the same inclination, there's no evidence of this. Time alone will tell if it's just a phase, a reaction to the unusual circumstances, or something real. In the meantime, it's doing no-one any harm so what's the problem?
The three children were conceived by and born into a family with a mother and a father, at the time in a stable relationship. Since then, however, the mother and father split up, and the mother has now ended up in a relationship with another woman. As I commented earlier, they are well aware of the circumstances and have even considered that the same-sex relationship has played its part. Given the two elder brothers, neither of whom has shown the same inclination, there's no evidence of this. Time alone will tell if it's just a phase, a reaction to the unusual circumstances, or something real. In the meantime, it's doing no-one any harm so what's the problem?
Reading between the lines can work well but it also can encourage people to see things that are just not there.
Even if in this case the same-sex relationship has played its part, that doesn't explain the transgender/ LGBT children emerging from entirely stable families with both a mother and father figure. Like it or not, TTT, transgenderism is a real phenomenon and there is no point in denying that, so you ought to accept that and try to understand it properly rather than dismissing it with an airy wave of the hand.
Even if in this case the same-sex relationship has played its part, that doesn't explain the transgender/ LGBT children emerging from entirely stable families with both a mother and father figure. Like it or not, TTT, transgenderism is a real phenomenon and there is no point in denying that, so you ought to accept that and try to understand it properly rather than dismissing it with an airy wave of the hand.
@jim,
I don't think you are allowing for the possibility that the two older brothers were in the M+F environment during the time it took their personality to 'gel' into the male type (or should we say stereotype).
Earlier tonight (The One Show), Jack Dee said something I have long believed: kids will copy whatever behaviours they ate surrounded by, in an effort to fit in. I don't like expressions like "hard-wired" but it is clearly a survival skill which is probably older than language. If you don't behave like the group, the group will brutalise you until you either go away or succumb to injuries.
Which leads me neatly to the pecking order in a 5 brothers scenario. Brother #1 -always- wins; #2 only gets beaten up once per round; #3 twice etc. Brother 'n' needs to be pretty adept at submissiveness, if they wish to avoid their (n-1) beatings. Fast track to gimp-dom, I suspect. Or they could end up hyper aggressive (spilling outside the home dynamic, I mean).
This is also by way of saying "same upbringing" does not mean that younger siblings go through the -identical- life experience of their elder ones. Oldest child goes through everything as a novel experience with no clues or anyone they can copy. Younger siblings can make leaps up the milestone chart by having older bro or sis to copy (but they find out about Santa perhaps earlier than they might like*, so there is a downside to 'assisted precociousness').
* I suspect my "all magical things are bunk" trait stems from spoilerage of this sort.
I don't think you are allowing for the possibility that the two older brothers were in the M+F environment during the time it took their personality to 'gel' into the male type (or should we say stereotype).
Earlier tonight (The One Show), Jack Dee said something I have long believed: kids will copy whatever behaviours they ate surrounded by, in an effort to fit in. I don't like expressions like "hard-wired" but it is clearly a survival skill which is probably older than language. If you don't behave like the group, the group will brutalise you until you either go away or succumb to injuries.
Which leads me neatly to the pecking order in a 5 brothers scenario. Brother #1 -always- wins; #2 only gets beaten up once per round; #3 twice etc. Brother 'n' needs to be pretty adept at submissiveness, if they wish to avoid their (n-1) beatings. Fast track to gimp-dom, I suspect. Or they could end up hyper aggressive (spilling outside the home dynamic, I mean).
This is also by way of saying "same upbringing" does not mean that younger siblings go through the -identical- life experience of their elder ones. Oldest child goes through everything as a novel experience with no clues or anyone they can copy. Younger siblings can make leaps up the milestone chart by having older bro or sis to copy (but they find out about Santa perhaps earlier than they might like*, so there is a downside to 'assisted precociousness').
* I suspect my "all magical things are bunk" trait stems from spoilerage of this sort.
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