ChatterBank0 min ago
When Are The Italians Going To Say "enough Is Enough"?
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They should be rescued from their flimsy unseaworthy vessels and transported back to Africa.
They should be rescued from their flimsy unseaworthy vessels and transported back to Africa.
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As Italy is part of Nato I would suggest a joint naval effort.We used to have R.N. manned Fishery Protection vessels sailing our shores during the Cod Wars and after.We have an international anti-piracy patrol in the Gulf. Use the emptied Lampedusa as a patrol base and have joint European navies patrolling the shores
of Italy on a rotational basis.Every one in Europe would share the cost. That may be a smaller price to pay by all concerned which includes us ultimately to stem this tide.
of Italy on a rotational basis.Every one in Europe would share the cost. That may be a smaller price to pay by all concerned which includes us ultimately to stem this tide.
AOG - //There are many people who risk their lives every day in their quest to to earn a living, The Armed Services, Firemen, Police etc. //
Are you seriously comparing risking your life in a leaky overloaded boat to get to a country you have only heard of, with a job in the armed services, or police or fire services?
Honestly?
Are you seriously comparing risking your life in a leaky overloaded boat to get to a country you have only heard of, with a job in the armed services, or police or fire services?
Honestly?
When are these African economic migrants going to take more responsibilities for their own countries rather than trying to sponge off us Europeans,How come Africa is such a basket case of useless workshy chancers,when other former(not African)colonies of ours are now more often than not,much richer than we are?Where did the Africans go wrong?
This has been going on for some time now. A few months, maybe a year ago, the mayor of Lampedusa said he was “proud that his island was the ‘destination of choice’ of so many African migrants.” What he neglected to add of course was that (a) they have little choice over where they are shipped to with Lampedusa just happening to be one of the closest points to North Africa and (b) Italy was not proud enough to retain the migrants in their “destination of choice” and quickly ushered most of them over their border and towards all points north.
Apparently in the last week alone more than 10,000 migrants have been plucked from the drink. This is clearly completely unsustainable. As I have said on AB before this is nothing short of an invasion upon Europe and, in the long term, will cause just as much damage as if the continent was to be overrun by military force.
There are a number of issues which have led to this ludicrous situation. Many of these newcomers are not asylum seekers fleeing persecution. They are economic migrants seeking a better life. Exacerbating the problem is the Schengen Agreement. I’ve stopped calling that agreement ridiculous because someone on AB took me to task for it. Nonetheless, ridiculous it is. Mainland Europe’s internal borders were already hopelessly porous when the EU encouraged their abandonment under the “free movement” philosophy. The Schengen Agreement abandoned those borders entirely in 1996 and now anyone gaining a foothold, whether legally or otherwise, anywhere in the Schengen area has the freedom to move anywhere they like within the area unhindered. The UK sensibly (for once) refused to join this circus and at least we have the ability to enforce our borders. The folly of this agreement is now being realised by many EU nations although the Mayor of Calais, when commenting on the lamentable situation in that hapless town, suggested that the UK should be “forced” to join the Schengen Agreement (presumably on the basis that it will be easier for France to export their illegal migrant problem to the UK).
The answer to this problem is fairly straightforward. The Schengen Agreement should be immediately abandoned and rigorously enforced borders re-established on mainland Europe. Illegal entrants should be securely held before being quickly assessed whether they have a valid claim to settle in the first safe country they land. (An idiot on the TV yesterday claimed that Belgium was now not a safe country because people there were being “trafficked” to the UK). If their claim is rejected they should be given the opportunity to return whence they came or be held indefinitely in secure accommodation. Boats in the Mediterranean heading to Europe should be taken into tow and returned forthwith to the North African coast (if they finish up a few miles away from where they started, too bad).
There is no earthly reason why this problem should be spread throughout Europe. It should be contained in the areas where it originates and tightly controlled there. People in Africa have no right to “a better life” in a European destination of their choice; they would be of greater benefit to their nations if they stayed there and helped improve matters (in the same way that Europeans did). The sooner that is demonstrated and robustly enforced the better.
Of course there is no political will to do any of this. All the EU (and individual mainland EU nations) are interested in is “spreading” the problem across the continent. And they do so at their peril and to the detriment of everybody here.
Apparently in the last week alone more than 10,000 migrants have been plucked from the drink. This is clearly completely unsustainable. As I have said on AB before this is nothing short of an invasion upon Europe and, in the long term, will cause just as much damage as if the continent was to be overrun by military force.
There are a number of issues which have led to this ludicrous situation. Many of these newcomers are not asylum seekers fleeing persecution. They are economic migrants seeking a better life. Exacerbating the problem is the Schengen Agreement. I’ve stopped calling that agreement ridiculous because someone on AB took me to task for it. Nonetheless, ridiculous it is. Mainland Europe’s internal borders were already hopelessly porous when the EU encouraged their abandonment under the “free movement” philosophy. The Schengen Agreement abandoned those borders entirely in 1996 and now anyone gaining a foothold, whether legally or otherwise, anywhere in the Schengen area has the freedom to move anywhere they like within the area unhindered. The UK sensibly (for once) refused to join this circus and at least we have the ability to enforce our borders. The folly of this agreement is now being realised by many EU nations although the Mayor of Calais, when commenting on the lamentable situation in that hapless town, suggested that the UK should be “forced” to join the Schengen Agreement (presumably on the basis that it will be easier for France to export their illegal migrant problem to the UK).
The answer to this problem is fairly straightforward. The Schengen Agreement should be immediately abandoned and rigorously enforced borders re-established on mainland Europe. Illegal entrants should be securely held before being quickly assessed whether they have a valid claim to settle in the first safe country they land. (An idiot on the TV yesterday claimed that Belgium was now not a safe country because people there were being “trafficked” to the UK). If their claim is rejected they should be given the opportunity to return whence they came or be held indefinitely in secure accommodation. Boats in the Mediterranean heading to Europe should be taken into tow and returned forthwith to the North African coast (if they finish up a few miles away from where they started, too bad).
There is no earthly reason why this problem should be spread throughout Europe. It should be contained in the areas where it originates and tightly controlled there. People in Africa have no right to “a better life” in a European destination of their choice; they would be of greater benefit to their nations if they stayed there and helped improve matters (in the same way that Europeans did). The sooner that is demonstrated and robustly enforced the better.
Of course there is no political will to do any of this. All the EU (and individual mainland EU nations) are interested in is “spreading” the problem across the continent. And they do so at their peril and to the detriment of everybody here.
It’s not off-topic at all, mushroom. It is an integral part of the efforts the UK has made to provide illegal entry to the UK from the Schengen Area by providing UK immigration controls in Calais, Dunkirk and the Chunnel.
If France were to withdraw from that Treaty (signed in 2003) the UK would have to provide rigorous immigration controls in Dover and strictly enforce the right to return to France, forthwith, any would –be entrants arriving without authority.
France, of course, would be entitled to do the same as they have their immigration controls in Dover (though I don’t think there is quite the same numbers clamouring to get to France from the UK).
If France were to withdraw from that Treaty (signed in 2003) the UK would have to provide rigorous immigration controls in Dover and strictly enforce the right to return to France, forthwith, any would –be entrants arriving without authority.
France, of course, would be entitled to do the same as they have their immigration controls in Dover (though I don’t think there is quite the same numbers clamouring to get to France from the UK).
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I often ask myself if the likes of Somalia,Eritrea ,Ethiopia et al are ancient civilisations and have survived for thousands of years,WHY,after buckets of foreign aid has been ploughed into these countries and Sean Bean simpering on TV about little Amed walking 2 miles for a bucket of dirty water do they still not have the nous to find water? "Your £3 donation will help provide picks and shovels to dig wells" etc.Trouble is the work shy would rather mugs from Oxfam to dig the ruddy wells for them. I could find water in the desert to survive given basic materials like a poly bag to condense nightime moisture.It aint rocket science.If these people haven't suddenly got the ability to find their own water etc then they are hardly going to be a valuable asset to the UK after having the materials given to them.I am not including genuine refugees who are fleeing for their lives from IS like the Syrian and Iraqui Christian refugees and not merely chancers. If North,West and East Africa is such an awful place they have had enough years and money to make it better for themselves without begging from Europe.
Very interesting post by the way NJ.Thank you for your interesting assesment.
I often ask myself if the likes of Somalia,Eritrea ,Ethiopia et al are ancient civilisations and have survived for thousands of years,WHY,after buckets of foreign aid has been ploughed into these countries and Sean Bean simpering on TV about little Amed walking 2 miles for a bucket of dirty water do they still not have the nous to find water? "Your £3 donation will help provide picks and shovels to dig wells" etc.Trouble is the work shy would rather mugs from Oxfam to dig the ruddy wells for them. I could find water in the desert to survive given basic materials like a poly bag to condense nightime moisture.It aint rocket science.If these people haven't suddenly got the ability to find their own water etc then they are hardly going to be a valuable asset to the UK after having the materials given to them.I am not including genuine refugees who are fleeing for their lives from IS like the Syrian and Iraqui Christian refugees and not merely chancers. If North,West and East Africa is such an awful place they have had enough years and money to make it better for themselves without begging from Europe.
Very interesting post by the way NJ.Thank you for your interesting assesment.
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I heard tonight on the BBC news that Muslims threw 12 Christians overboard
on their quest to illegally enter Europe.The Italian Police are investigating
This disgusting effluent are the same that some bleeding heart lentil crunching lefties wish to embrace and absorb them into our culture.
I have no doubt that most of this carp have their sights set on the UK.
We are a christian country so why are they likely to make their way here?
sp and his westernised moderate Bacardi and Coke swilling Muslims friends in Islington will no doubt be happy that these Islamic cherubs have reached these shores but of course, beware, our potential Islamic guests do not happen to tolerate homosexuality or Christianity either.
So can anyone suggest why these Muslims should be tolerated as immigrants in this country who are not persecuted in their own country.The Christian immigrants,however,are abundantly persecuted in these Islamic caliphates as is demonstrated by this murder on the high seas as well.If allowed into this country I expect they will not be happy with our way of life and go about killing as many more Christians as they are instructed to by their Holy Prophet .
I heard tonight on the BBC news that Muslims threw 12 Christians overboard
on their quest to illegally enter Europe.The Italian Police are investigating
This disgusting effluent are the same that some bleeding heart lentil crunching lefties wish to embrace and absorb them into our culture.
I have no doubt that most of this carp have their sights set on the UK.
We are a christian country so why are they likely to make their way here?
sp and his westernised moderate Bacardi and Coke swilling Muslims friends in Islington will no doubt be happy that these Islamic cherubs have reached these shores but of course, beware, our potential Islamic guests do not happen to tolerate homosexuality or Christianity either.
So can anyone suggest why these Muslims should be tolerated as immigrants in this country who are not persecuted in their own country.The Christian immigrants,however,are abundantly persecuted in these Islamic caliphates as is demonstrated by this murder on the high seas as well.If allowed into this country I expect they will not be happy with our way of life and go about killing as many more Christians as they are instructed to by their Holy Prophet .
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The anxiety about being flooded by refugees gives us an insight into the 1930s reluctance of many countries to accept Jewish refugees from the Nazis.
The logistical task faced by Italy dealing with African refugees is considerably worse than our own concerns about EU migrants and asylum seekers at Calais.
However, the answer is not to cut back patrols "to discourage" the refugees. The poor souls trying to get out of Libya etc are not exactly thumbing through the travel brochures. They won't know, when they set off, about relief attempts being cut back and in any case they are just so desperate to get away from the persecution and general mayhem that they will still take their chances anyway.
This has to be wider than just Italy or just the EU. It should be seen as a humanitarian crisis and thus become the responsibility of the UN services. They have the resources and the experience to deal with it more successfully.
The logistical task faced by Italy dealing with African refugees is considerably worse than our own concerns about EU migrants and asylum seekers at Calais.
However, the answer is not to cut back patrols "to discourage" the refugees. The poor souls trying to get out of Libya etc are not exactly thumbing through the travel brochures. They won't know, when they set off, about relief attempts being cut back and in any case they are just so desperate to get away from the persecution and general mayhem that they will still take their chances anyway.
This has to be wider than just Italy or just the EU. It should be seen as a humanitarian crisis and thus become the responsibility of the UN services. They have the resources and the experience to deal with it more successfully.
It's pointless to call for an end to Schengen. Not only would this defeat the entire point of the EU -- restricting freedom of movement for some measn restricting it for all -- but also there is the small matter of dealing with international borders like this one:
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It's impossible to end Schengen and rebuild walls, metaphorical or otherwise, along the EU borders without going to a stupendous level of expense. I wouldn't care to estimate the costs beyond an order of magnitude guess -- and I'd put it as well above the trillions, even before the long-term expense of then maintaining all these borders. It is just utterly unfeasible.
So we'd better come up with a solution that is actually possible to try -- success is hardly guaranteed, of course, as long as poeple are wanting to come here in the first place. Perhaps the best solution is to allow the EU to slide into abject poverty? That way people will soon stop believing that the streets are paved with gold...
Or we could work to improve the lot of people living in Africa in the first place. They will want to improve their lives by coming to the EU as long as the choice back home is less promising.
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It's impossible to end Schengen and rebuild walls, metaphorical or otherwise, along the EU borders without going to a stupendous level of expense. I wouldn't care to estimate the costs beyond an order of magnitude guess -- and I'd put it as well above the trillions, even before the long-term expense of then maintaining all these borders. It is just utterly unfeasible.
So we'd better come up with a solution that is actually possible to try -- success is hardly guaranteed, of course, as long as poeple are wanting to come here in the first place. Perhaps the best solution is to allow the EU to slide into abject poverty? That way people will soon stop believing that the streets are paved with gold...
Or we could work to improve the lot of people living in Africa in the first place. They will want to improve their lives by coming to the EU as long as the choice back home is less promising.
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