Religion & Spirituality - What...
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Another Muslim Family Shocked...
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Just dusting off the Peace In Our Time script for you to use in your defence of the indefensible
08:10 Mon 15th Jun 2015
douglas - //Just dusting off the Peace In Our Time script for you to use in your defence of the indefensible, Andy.
Douglas - in your rush to condemn my position, you may have failed to read my post carefully enough to see this -
"I do not for one moment condone has actions, or believe that his death should overshadow the loss of the innocent people who died ..."
I can't see much, if any 'defence of the indefenceable there.
//Your loose use of 'hate' and 'hatred' as by so many today suggests a lazy shorthand approach to those daring to disagree with your rosy view of the world.//
Anyone anywhere is entirely free to disagree with my 'rosy view of the world', absolutely no 'daring' is required.
//Disgust, disdain, disbelief at the attitude of appeasement toward the unspeakable maybe. But not hatred for all and sundry as your slightly hysterical spraff implies.//
I am, and never have, and never would, espoused 'appeasement' of these dreadful people and their heinous acts - that is not what I said.
My point is, if we simply shrug our shoulders and tell ourselves that this is how Muslims are, and it will never change - then it indeed never will change.
My approach is that simply knee-jerk hatred as espoused so frequently and easily on sites like this do nothing to help anyone, including the people who whip themselves up into a frenzy of misplaced self-righteousness.
Hatred is what drives extremists, based on misunderstandings of how anyone outside their perverted view thinks and feels.
My point is that to do the same simply perpetuates the whole system, and maybe a little compassion for a child lost would be a good start.
And no, that doesn't make his life any more valuable than those innocents he killed - but we all share this planet, and we have to try and find some way of changing the thinking of these people, and shoulder-shrugging and knee-jerking, and self-righteousness are what drive them - we should be ware of letting it drive us as well.
Douglas - in your rush to condemn my position, you may have failed to read my post carefully enough to see this -
"I do not for one moment condone has actions, or believe that his death should overshadow the loss of the innocent people who died ..."
I can't see much, if any 'defence of the indefenceable there.
//Your loose use of 'hate' and 'hatred' as by so many today suggests a lazy shorthand approach to those daring to disagree with your rosy view of the world.//
Anyone anywhere is entirely free to disagree with my 'rosy view of the world', absolutely no 'daring' is required.
//Disgust, disdain, disbelief at the attitude of appeasement toward the unspeakable maybe. But not hatred for all and sundry as your slightly hysterical spraff implies.//
I am, and never have, and never would, espoused 'appeasement' of these dreadful people and their heinous acts - that is not what I said.
My point is, if we simply shrug our shoulders and tell ourselves that this is how Muslims are, and it will never change - then it indeed never will change.
My approach is that simply knee-jerk hatred as espoused so frequently and easily on sites like this do nothing to help anyone, including the people who whip themselves up into a frenzy of misplaced self-righteousness.
Hatred is what drives extremists, based on misunderstandings of how anyone outside their perverted view thinks and feels.
My point is that to do the same simply perpetuates the whole system, and maybe a little compassion for a child lost would be a good start.
And no, that doesn't make his life any more valuable than those innocents he killed - but we all share this planet, and we have to try and find some way of changing the thinking of these people, and shoulder-shrugging and knee-jerking, and self-righteousness are what drive them - we should be ware of letting it drive us as well.
Andy, //For your argument to be valid, you would need to assume that all Muslims are extremists who believe in the concept of martyrdom.//
or just believe in their holy book and holy teachings!
If Muslims don't like the way their faith works, they should leave it and denounce it!! Oh no they cant can they, that is punishable by death!!
or just believe in their holy book and holy teachings!
If Muslims don't like the way their faith works, they should leave it and denounce it!! Oh no they cant can they, that is punishable by death!!
I notice his parents never apologised for their off springs actions, just blame everyone except themselves.
What a difference to the apologising parents of the young girl who exposed herself on that mountain in Malaysia.
This killer has been described by one on here as a 'child', well is it not time that these 'children' should now be banned from travelling abroad unless accompanied by an adult?
What a difference to the apologising parents of the young girl who exposed herself on that mountain in Malaysia.
This killer has been described by one on here as a 'child', well is it not time that these 'children' should now be banned from travelling abroad unless accompanied by an adult?
I find it sad that apparently targeted youngsters can be so easily swayed/manipulated. That they can be made to feel only worthwhile if they perform some terrible action that they see as being somehow, spiritually the right thing to do.
If is sad they don't have more resistance and realise when they are being fed whatever it takes to get them agree to being used.
I feel this thread is polarising opinion, especially regarding lumping all who follow a particular faith with those extremists who approve of violent action in order to form their extreme empire here on Earth; rather than trying to understand the why of what happened. It is a tragedy for all. And not one helped to be prevented in the future by finger pointing here & now.
If is sad they don't have more resistance and realise when they are being fed whatever it takes to get them agree to being used.
I feel this thread is polarising opinion, especially regarding lumping all who follow a particular faith with those extremists who approve of violent action in order to form their extreme empire here on Earth; rather than trying to understand the why of what happened. It is a tragedy for all. And not one helped to be prevented in the future by finger pointing here & now.
The parents have lost heir son AOG. It's hardly surprising that apologising on his behalf is not the first thing they want to do. Getting your bits out on a mountain hardly compares. An apology there is more to do with smoothing over the situation. Not the same level of grief.
Yes, 18 is the usual level of becoming an adult here. Even if society fades that status in over a number of years with different ages for different things. So it is perfectly reasonable to expect anyone under that age should either be accompanied or at least have evidence that the parents are in favour for them to travel abroad without them.
Yes, 18 is the usual level of becoming an adult here. Even if society fades that status in over a number of years with different ages for different things. So it is perfectly reasonable to expect anyone under that age should either be accompanied or at least have evidence that the parents are in favour for them to travel abroad without them.
Thanks Old_Geezer for bringing some balance to a subject that inevitably creates polarised opinions.
AOG - if my daughter had behaved thoughtlessly on holiday, and was sitting in my lounge while I popped out to add my apologies to the media, I would have no problem apologising.
If my son had killed himself and a load of innocent people in the name of an extremist organisation, I would probably be a little too busy staring into the massive hole in my life, and wondering where I went wrong, to pop out with a few platitudes after the event.
AOG - if my daughter had behaved thoughtlessly on holiday, and was sitting in my lounge while I popped out to add my apologies to the media, I would have no problem apologising.
If my son had killed himself and a load of innocent people in the name of an extremist organisation, I would probably be a little too busy staring into the massive hole in my life, and wondering where I went wrong, to pop out with a few platitudes after the event.
AOG - //Khandro
/// He was a good looking lad, such a waste. ///
Well that makes all the difference then?
Fancied him did you, I suppose there was also many other good looking lads and lasses amongst his numerous unfortunate victims. //
Does the vitriol you live with on a daily basis and shoot on here regularly give you headaches, heartburn, sleepless nights, a permanent scowl?
Just wondering.
Oh, and by the way, if you are going to refer to me, you know my name, please don't anonymise me as 'one on here' - it's not polite.
/// He was a good looking lad, such a waste. ///
Well that makes all the difference then?
Fancied him did you, I suppose there was also many other good looking lads and lasses amongst his numerous unfortunate victims. //
Does the vitriol you live with on a daily basis and shoot on here regularly give you headaches, heartburn, sleepless nights, a permanent scowl?
Just wondering.
Oh, and by the way, if you are going to refer to me, you know my name, please don't anonymise me as 'one on here' - it's not polite.
This child was groomed and brainwashed by ISIS. He is no more guilty than a child groomed for sex on the internet (well he/she could have said 'no'). His target (thankfully isn't quite the word I'm looking for) was in Syria, and not a shopping mall in Dewsbury,but we are not far away from this happening unless something drastic is done about radicalization in schools and on the Internet.
And yet another British Muslim family shocked.
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Retrochic - //This child was groomed and brainwashed by ISIS. He is no more guilty than a child groomed for sex on the internet (well he/she could have said 'no'). His target (thankfully isn't quite the word I'm looking for) was in Syria, and not a shopping mall in Dewsbury,but we are not far away from this happening unless something drastic is done about radicalization in schools and on the Internet. //
You are of course quite right about the need for serious focus on radicalisation in schools and on the net.
I feel a parallel with the Irish terrorists in the 1970's - the government made ineffectual noises, while the priests in churches, where people would actually listen and take notice, remain complicit with their silence.
How much more important for Muslims, for whom their faith is a central part of their lives, should be persuaded by their Imams to avoid extremism, but they, similarly, appear reluctant to put that message out there.
You are of course quite right about the need for serious focus on radicalisation in schools and on the net.
I feel a parallel with the Irish terrorists in the 1970's - the government made ineffectual noises, while the priests in churches, where people would actually listen and take notice, remain complicit with their silence.
How much more important for Muslims, for whom their faith is a central part of their lives, should be persuaded by their Imams to avoid extremism, but they, similarly, appear reluctant to put that message out there.
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