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"Why do you feel the need to post items like this? " nobody forces your to read or reply, so whats your problem ?
09:40 Mon 24th Aug 2015
I would not alter the pace I walk because there was a woman in front of me, I would not avoid eye contact if she looked at me and I certainly would not cross the road for no reason.
I think a man staying the same distance behind a woman would creep her out more, if he looked away when she looked at him that too would get alarm bells ringing.
I don't go along with this nowadays thinking.
I think a man staying the same distance behind a woman would creep her out more, if he looked away when she looked at him that too would get alarm bells ringing.
I don't go along with this nowadays thinking.
"Fortunately, few people have your growing obsession with the notion that all Muslims mean harm to the west - it is an obvious nonsense, and frankly I think it is an unpleasant and racist one as well.".
Are there any Muslims who DO mean harm to the West, Andy? The answer may be none at all. However, if you accept that some such do exist then perhaps you would care to speculate how many there are. Might it be one in a hundred, one in a thousand, one in ten thousand? Are there any clues provided by recent news items from here and abroad?
Are there any Muslims who DO mean harm to the West, Andy? The answer may be none at all. However, if you accept that some such do exist then perhaps you would care to speculate how many there are. Might it be one in a hundred, one in a thousand, one in ten thousand? Are there any clues provided by recent news items from here and abroad?
vetuste - "Are there any Muslims who DO mean harm to the West, Andy? The answer may be none at all. However, if you accept that some such do exist then perhaps you would care to speculate how many there are. Might it be one in a hundred, one in a thousand, one in ten thousand? Are there any clues provided by recent news items from here and abroad?"
You appear to be using the same strained logic as AOG to shoehorn some reason into your point - but I feel that again it fails scrutiny.
I do accept that there are Muslims who wish harm to the West, but since there are 1.6 billion of them, that proportion has to be minute.
What is inversely proportional though, is the amount of media coverage generated by that minority - to a point where a scare-mongering media can have the West believe that it actually is the majority of Muslims who wish us harm, which is patently not true.
I would not care to speculate - it's pointless. It only needs one with enough hatred combined with opportunity to create a media storm for a month.
Let's extrapolate that argument shall we?
Some men are rapists. But that does not mean all men are rapists - but the ones that are generate headlines, the ones that are not, don't.
So let's sidestep the stereotyping the media loves to shove at us, and accept that militants are a minority - a horrible murderous waste-of-planet-space minority, but still - a minority, and that is the important bit.
You appear to be using the same strained logic as AOG to shoehorn some reason into your point - but I feel that again it fails scrutiny.
I do accept that there are Muslims who wish harm to the West, but since there are 1.6 billion of them, that proportion has to be minute.
What is inversely proportional though, is the amount of media coverage generated by that minority - to a point where a scare-mongering media can have the West believe that it actually is the majority of Muslims who wish us harm, which is patently not true.
I would not care to speculate - it's pointless. It only needs one with enough hatred combined with opportunity to create a media storm for a month.
Let's extrapolate that argument shall we?
Some men are rapists. But that does not mean all men are rapists - but the ones that are generate headlines, the ones that are not, don't.
So let's sidestep the stereotyping the media loves to shove at us, and accept that militants are a minority - a horrible murderous waste-of-planet-space minority, but still - a minority, and that is the important bit.
andy-hughes
/// A woman alone at night on a dark street would probably feel vulnerable, even if there was no-one in sight. The sight of a man walking the same way may make her feel a little more worried, but that is a very very long way from assuming that he must automatically believe he is a rapist. ///
Then what would she be worried about, that he might give her a kiss on the lips and then run away?
/// A woman alone at night on a dark street would probably feel vulnerable, even if there was no-one in sight. The sight of a man walking the same way may make her feel a little more worried, but that is a very very long way from assuming that he must automatically believe he is a rapist. ///
Then what would she be worried about, that he might give her a kiss on the lips and then run away?
andy-hughes, //....men of the largest religious faith on the planet//
Islam is not the largest religious faith on the planet.
//I do accept that there are Muslims who wish harm to the West, but since there are 1.6 billion of them, that proportion has to be minute.//
If only 1% of Muslims worldwide hold extremist sympathies that translates to 15 million people – hardly a minute proportion.
For your information:
http://
Islam is not the largest religious faith on the planet.
//I do accept that there are Muslims who wish harm to the West, but since there are 1.6 billion of them, that proportion has to be minute.//
If only 1% of Muslims worldwide hold extremist sympathies that translates to 15 million people – hardly a minute proportion.
For your information:
http://
AOG - "/// A woman alone at night on a dark street would probably feel vulnerable, even if there was no-one in sight. The sight of a man walking the same way may make her feel a little more worried, but that is a very very long way from assuming that he must automatically believe he is a rapist. ///
Then what would she be worried about, that he might give her a kiss on the lips and then run away? "
One of the supreme ironies of life is that I get attacked by a small band of AB'ers for cutting and pasting, and being keen to maintain a debate - which they see as 'taking over' - when you are at least as guilty of that as I am, but you esxcape unscathed - from them at least.
I think we are going round in circles this time, so I will bow out - we are not going to reach a sensible conclusion I feel.
See you on the next one.
Then what would she be worried about, that he might give her a kiss on the lips and then run away? "
One of the supreme ironies of life is that I get attacked by a small band of AB'ers for cutting and pasting, and being keen to maintain a debate - which they see as 'taking over' - when you are at least as guilty of that as I am, but you esxcape unscathed - from them at least.
I think we are going round in circles this time, so I will bow out - we are not going to reach a sensible conclusion I feel.
See you on the next one.
Naomi - "andy-hughes, before you depart would you please respond to my post at 16.03?"
By all means.
I stand corrected on my assertion that Islam was the biggest faith - statistics confirm otherwise.
If it were indeed 1% of Muslims, it would be millions, and if it were 50% it would be millions more - but since it is neither, that rather negates the point doesn't it.
The extremists represent a tiny fraction of Islam as a whole, and I am sure you know that as well as I do.
By all means.
I stand corrected on my assertion that Islam was the biggest faith - statistics confirm otherwise.
If it were indeed 1% of Muslims, it would be millions, and if it were 50% it would be millions more - but since it is neither, that rather negates the point doesn't it.
The extremists represent a tiny fraction of Islam as a whole, and I am sure you know that as well as I do.
-- answer removed --
andy-hughes, //If it were indeed 1% of Muslims, it would be millions, and if it were 50% it would be millions more - but since it is neither, that rather negates the point doesn't it. //
No, it doesn't negate the point. 25% of British Muslims have sympathies with extremists - that equates to around 1,250,000 in this country alone - and if you want to see the percentages worldwide and get it right (which perhaps you'd rather not) take a look at my link.
No, it doesn't negate the point. 25% of British Muslims have sympathies with extremists - that equates to around 1,250,000 in this country alone - and if you want to see the percentages worldwide and get it right (which perhaps you'd rather not) take a look at my link.
You and I are talking partly at cross purposes, Andy. You're seeing the question "Do they wish us harm?" as equivalent to a question like "How many Muslims would kill, or approve the killing of, a person who had insulted the Prophet?", and, further, I think you believe the vast majority of Muslims which falls outside that category has attitudes and values similar to those of you and me. I disagree with you regarding the proportion of Muslims who support violence: I think it's much higher than you suppose. But I also disagree with you and regarding the attitudes and values of the non-violent majority: I think there are large sections of the Muslim community which are opposed to what we used to call "British" values before "British" lost all value as a cultural descriptor. This latter group does not necessarily "wish us harm" in the sense the jihadis in the first group do: they just disagree with many of the things we do and believe in, and will work to change them.
On the first point let me offer some evidence in support of my assertion. I'm not trying to "shoehorn" anything: I rely on your expert scrutiny to tell me where my logic is "strained" or faulty. My evidence is the reaction across almost the whole Muslim world to the Charlie Hebdo massacre and the "Je suis Charlie" marches in Paris and other European cities which followed it.
You can do your own research on the extent of Muslim outrage, but here's one link:
http://
The 800,000 comes from a Russian news source and looks a dodgy number. Taken at face value this means half the population of Chechnya thinks the murder was justified.
And here's another one; you mustlook at this:
http://
That's 1000 of the Muslims in Sydney alone who support the murders openly! There are fewer than 500,000 Muslims in the whole of Australia, aren't there?
Now, regarding the second point - the non-violent majority. Firstly, I take you to task for what anti-Islamists like me are often falsely accused of: the assumption that "they" are all cast in the same mould. The "Muslim Community" so beloved by the multiculturalists is as heterogeneous as the the wider Muslim world in which it has its roots. I suggest two of the biggest differences rest in the degrees and types of piety on the one hand, and certain unpleasant "social" accretions" which may have been acquired, if not because of Islam, but at least unopposed by it.
The educated professional Muslims, the large and successful mercantile class, and the less educated who emigrated to Europe for genuine economic reasons are very unlikely to be inimical to the countries where they make their homes and in which they earn their livings. These are the Muslims most of us know.
But there are lots of Muslims most of us are fortunate not to know, but all of us will have seen and read about in the media. These "non-violent" Muslims often:
hate Jews;
hate homosexuals;
think Western women are sluts;
believe in the segregation of the sexes;
want to live under the Sharia;
burn books;
lobby for halal meat in schools;
lobby against the eating of pork in schools;
demand special treatment at work;
practise FGM;
And so on ad infinitum
Would you care to speculate how many such people there are in Luton, Bradford, Dewsbury , Rotherham and Tower Hamlets? No, neither would I. Do you think the presence of people with these attitudes is good or bad for the wider society? No, I don't know either.
On the first point let me offer some evidence in support of my assertion. I'm not trying to "shoehorn" anything: I rely on your expert scrutiny to tell me where my logic is "strained" or faulty. My evidence is the reaction across almost the whole Muslim world to the Charlie Hebdo massacre and the "Je suis Charlie" marches in Paris and other European cities which followed it.
You can do your own research on the extent of Muslim outrage, but here's one link:
http://
The 800,000 comes from a Russian news source and looks a dodgy number. Taken at face value this means half the population of Chechnya thinks the murder was justified.
And here's another one; you mustlook at this:
http://
That's 1000 of the Muslims in Sydney alone who support the murders openly! There are fewer than 500,000 Muslims in the whole of Australia, aren't there?
Now, regarding the second point - the non-violent majority. Firstly, I take you to task for what anti-Islamists like me are often falsely accused of: the assumption that "they" are all cast in the same mould. The "Muslim Community" so beloved by the multiculturalists is as heterogeneous as the the wider Muslim world in which it has its roots. I suggest two of the biggest differences rest in the degrees and types of piety on the one hand, and certain unpleasant "social" accretions" which may have been acquired, if not because of Islam, but at least unopposed by it.
The educated professional Muslims, the large and successful mercantile class, and the less educated who emigrated to Europe for genuine economic reasons are very unlikely to be inimical to the countries where they make their homes and in which they earn their livings. These are the Muslims most of us know.
But there are lots of Muslims most of us are fortunate not to know, but all of us will have seen and read about in the media. These "non-violent" Muslims often:
hate Jews;
hate homosexuals;
think Western women are sluts;
believe in the segregation of the sexes;
want to live under the Sharia;
burn books;
lobby for halal meat in schools;
lobby against the eating of pork in schools;
demand special treatment at work;
practise FGM;
And so on ad infinitum
Would you care to speculate how many such people there are in Luton, Bradford, Dewsbury , Rotherham and Tower Hamlets? No, neither would I. Do you think the presence of people with these attitudes is good or bad for the wider society? No, I don't know either.
You can find supporters of the Charlie Hebdo murders much closer to home.
http://
http://
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