Assisted Dying Bill: Fresh Debate On 'right To Die'

[mikey4444]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-34208624

What do we all think about this ?

I will say straight away, that I am in favour of changing the existing law, as long as it monitored properly. A close relative of mine died 18 years ago in a lot of pain.

Surely we should be able to assist someone to shuffle off this mortal coil with a bit more dignity ?

[RATTER15]

I think that in Switzerland they are quite strict. From what I remember, you must have a life limiting illness. You must have full mental capacity at the time of taking the drug that will kill you. so if you are diagnosed with Alzheimers or any of the other dementias etc. you will need to carry out this act before the disease affects your judgement over these matters. The legal side of things are all arranged in Switzerland prior to the act. I think you need to be in Switzerland about 14 days beforehand to get all the legalities sorted out and for mental assessments etc.

If this is the way it is still done I have no problems with assisted dying operating under the same guidelines. I think that this six months left to live idea is nonsense. Many people would not have the mental capacity to undergo this procedure within the last 12 months.

I think quite a few countries permit assisted dying, Switzerland is the one most people associate with it simply because they will undertake it for people that are not Swiss. Where other countries will only permit their own nationals to undertake assisted dying.

I am all for it providing there is a robust legal framework in place to protect people.

I for one would use it for sure if I was diagnosed with a life limiting disease, if it was not legalised, I would find my own way to do it.

[sandyRoe]

I wonder have they changed their rules since this?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/couple-who-died-after-suicide-clinic-visit-not-terminally-ill-6166831.html

[Svejk]

No, look back a page. Healthy British women went there in August.

[RATTER15]

Maybe Sandy, I cannot be totally sure of their requirements, I saw a documentary a few years ago and I am relying on a not so great memory, either way, it sounds like that couple made the right decision to take their own lives, I would support their decision 100%.

[Svejk]

oops^ woman. There wasn't a coach party. ;)

[RATTER15]

I think we should have the ability to live or die, with or without illness! as long as that decision is not influenced by others I really don't see what the issue is here?

[sandyRoe]

To book a one-way ticket to Geneva simply because you're fed up with things, or have an opinion based on the experience of caring for the terminally ill, doesn't seem reason enough.

[Cloverjo]

We're dumped on this earth without our consent and are expected to get on and work hard for our living and behave in a way which keeps the world metaphorically on its axis. There must be some people who feel they'd rather not be part of it, even though they're healthy of mind and body. Shouldn't they be allowed to die in a peaceful and painless way if they wish?

[RATTER15]

Sandy, I should be able to dictate when I die, its my life. If I dont want to live and want to end my life, why should I not be able to do that?

Its not like I will ever regret doing it!

Very sad for those left behind I admit, but you got to die sometime.

[RATTER15]

Cloverjo, exactly!!

[Sqad]

\\\\There must be some people who feel they'd rather not be part of it, even though they're healthy of mind and body. \\\\

I find it difficult to equate the description that you have give above to "being healthy of mind and body"

Could you give me an example?

[RATTER15]

Sqad, I have a good friend, he is totally sane with no mental issues at all as far as Im aware and I have known him for 20 years. He is very intelligent and has considered ending his life many times, simply because he doesn't like the world he is living in. It is a very well thought out issue for him, his reasoning has influenced mine to some degree. If he doesn't want to live, why should he not have the option to opt out?

[woofgang]

I don't think any of us should be judging whether a reason is sufficient or not. While I don't think I would want to die while still physically and mentally fit, having cared for the elderly, both personally and professionally, I can understand the views of that nurse who want to die while she is well and herself.

here's the wiki article on Dignitas
I found this particularly interesting. It seems to support the idea that in many cases, knowing that you can is enough.
"Most people coming to Dignitas do not plan to die but need insurance in case their illness becomes intolerable. Of those who receive the green light, 70% never return to Dignitas."

[woofgang]

its the old paradox,
"sane people don't want to die
You want to die
Therefore you are not sane"

do I mean paradox?

[Cloverjo]

Sqad, well, Ratter agrees with me so I'm not the only one who thinks this. I know people in general have an innate will to live, but sometimes I think that if I didn't have people on earth who needed me, I could happily push a button to end my life. I'm not ill or depressed (I've been depressed and know what that's like). It sometimes feels like too much hassle, and I never asked for it. There must be other people who feel like this.

[woofgang]

I missed two lines out
Only sane people are allowed to choose to die.
Sane people don't want to die.
You want to die.
Therefore you are not sane.
Therefore you may not choose to die.

and yes, its a paradox.

[Sqad]

\\\\no mental issues at all as far as Im aware \\\

That is the crucial part of your post........"as far as i'm aware."

I would question his "mental state"....BUT....OK.....he is fed up with the world and wants to end it all.
Is this a permanent state or would he still feel the same after winning the lottery?
What sort of doctor in the UK would put, in your words, a person who is healthy physically and mentally healthy.....to sleep.
I doubt that you would find one.
That would be ..MURDER and any surviving relatives would soon bring this act to the notice of the Law.

[Cloverjo]

Woofgang, where did the rule "sane people don't want to die" come from? Your first line is true, because that that is the law. Your second line is based on nothing (see Ratter's post about his sane and intelligent friend), so the whole thing is not a paradox.

[woofgang]

I can understand that Cloverjo. I have got responsibilities so I have to stay alive for now but once i have none, I don't feel that I would seek to extend my life. I am not unhappy, certainly not depressed just not.....engaged with life.

[woofgang]

I think its a societal attitude Cloverjo, at least in the UK.