Un 'shocked' Over Clashes In Hungary

[mikey4444]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34275400

Not surprising given the appalling scenes I saw on last nights news....firing CS gas and water cannon at children !

UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon said such treatment of asylum seekers was "unacceptable". On the Today Program this morning, a representative for the UN said that Hungary had violated the Geneva Convention with its brutal treatment of these refugees.

Even Serbia, not a nation that has the proudest record when it comes to human rights agrees. "Serbian Prime Minister Aleksandar Vucic accused Hungary of being "brutal and "non-European".

Contrast this brutal treatment, with the actions of the Croatian Government, which is treating these people with respect, not brutal oppression.

[Old_Geezer]

On the contrary, extremely surprising. But maybe it ought not be. Suggests Mr. Ban can't grasp nor predict situations. Reflects poorly on him, and by association the UN.

[-Talbot-]

Any views on the video, mikey?

[naomi24]

I watched that rampage last night - and a report from one of the Greek islands that is collapsing under the strain - and if we allow this immigration to continue, that's exactly what will happen elsewhere. Who cares about that? Not you Mikey, clearly.

[Old_Geezer]

It bears repeating that there were no asylum seekers nor refugees, they left that behind to try to force entry into other countries as illegal immigrants.

[mikey4444]

The video shows some very desperate people opposing an unjust law Talbot, and it quite clearly demonstrates the Hungarian brutality.

Now answer my point....If Croatia can treat these people with humanitarian decency, why can't Hungary ?

[mikey4444]

OG...these people don't want to emigrate to Hungary, what person would ?

They want to continue on their journey, to countries that have already said that they will be welcomed..... I keep repeating this but if Hungary would allow them safe passage, they wouldn't have to spray them with CS gas.

[-Talbot-]

To say you are blinkered is an understament, mikey. It seems you approve of violence when it suits you.

[mikey4444]

I am not blinkered Talbot, just a humanitarian.
Rather rare on AB these days !

[-Talbot-]

humanitarian.....but you approve of violence when it suits?

[Svejk]

The same people that always smugly say, 'It's the law' when the law supports their argument, always dismiss laws as unjust, unimportant when they don't.

[naomi24]

Mikey, you are blinkered because you don't consider the potential consequences of your 'humanitarianism'.

[-Talbot-]

You're right, Sven...here I agree with mikey

http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/News/Question1442263.html


But mikey seems to have a change of heart respecting the 'Law'

[anotheoldgit]

Togo

/// It is tantamount to an invasion. What we will do when it is millions of Chinese who decide that Europe looks tasty god only knows. ///

Or perhaps if thousands of Russians decided to move East?

[anotheoldgit]

mikey4444

/// They want to continue on their journey, to countries that have already said that they will be welcomed....///

Welcomed by whom? maybe the politicians and some Left-Wing groups, but not by the general public.

The response on here is testimonial to that.

[Old_Geezer]

Where they demand to migrate to is not the issue. With borders closing who can be sure they'll be able to move on from Hungary anyway ? But in any case they are migrants without entry permission who are trying to force their way in. Hungary is merely preventing this with as much force as they dare. It is not reasonable to sympathise with the offenders who were to receive humanitarian aid after they crossed the Syrian border but they decided that wasn't good enough. That should not be where they are nor making the demands they make. Whilst a nation's borders are theirs to guard.

[New Judge]

“UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon said such treatment of asylum seekers was "unacceptable". On the Today Program this morning, a representative for the UN said that Hungary had violated the Geneva Convention with its brutal treatment of these refugees.”

Mr Ki-moon (or is it Mr Ban, I’m never quite sure) should read his own organisation’s “Convention on the status of refugees”. I shall provide this information for the 94th time hoping that he is an AB user. (All regular ABers should be aware of it by now). This is the full Convention:

http://www.ohchr.org/EN/ProfessionalInterest/Pages/StatusOfRefugees.aspx

This is the relevant bit (Article 31):

“The Contracting States shall not impose penalties, on account of their illegal entry or presence, on refugees who, coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened in the sense of article 1, enter or are present in their territory without authorization, provided they present themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry or presence.”

Note (yet again) “…coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened…” and "...provided they present themselves without delay to the authorities..."

Those massing on the Hungarian border are not refugees. They lost that status and their immunity from action against them for illegal entry as soon as they left Turkey. They are now illegal immigrants. The fact that Serbia has chosen not to treat them as such and is content to wave them on their way is their affair. Their folly in doing so is now laid bare as they (and now Croatia as well) may find themselves with many thousands of people, to whom they should have denied entry, within their borders. Croatia itself may soon regret laying out their welcome mat. Most of their border to the north is with Hungary so I imagine onward routes that way will soon be blocked. That just leaves little Slovenia to bear the onslaught.

The fact that they “want” to continue their journeys to countries which have welcomed them is not the point Mikey. That is not an option open to them and the sooner that is made clear to them the better. (Apart from that, those countries who may have welcomed them now may have changed their minds in view of their behaviour).

Hungary is simply doing what all EU nations with external borders (particularly in the light of the discredited Schengen Agreement) should do – protect those borders and prevent illegal incursions. Quite how they are supposed to do that without the use of force when faced with rampaging mobs intent on tearing down anything in their way is a little hard to understand. Italy and Greece should have done the same when the invasion began in earnest in the Spring.

This situation is a complete shambles. It has been fomented by the ridiculous actions and inactions of EU member states and the Euromaniacs. Frau Merkel has a lot to answer for when she invited 800,000 migrants into Germany (an invitation that lasted about 10 days). The rest of the continent is paying the price for that and similar inanities.

The UN should concentrate on encouraging those leaving Syria to remain there. Those who do leave should have Article 31 clearly explained to them.

[jourdain2]

It shouldn't need repeating NJ - but thank you for doing so.

[NellieMay]

Excellent informative and factual post from New Judge.

The situation is out of control, which anybody with any sense could see was coming.

[jourdain2]

This may be seen as simplistic. I do not consider these people to be legal refugees. Given that:-

If a foreign family came and set up camp in my garden, without my invitation to do so I would not be happy and would ask them to leave.

If they then wandered into my house and helped themselves to 'what they needed' from my wardrobe and larder I would be furious and contact the authorities and tell them that I was being robbed.

If I then found that I was paying for their presence through my taxes I would be incandescent with fury.

Sorry mikey and others, but these are not pitiful refugees tramping sadly in search of a safe home (I am the first to give to genuine refugees). They have left a safe home and want to batten on us.

[Khandro]

Even 'Die Zeit', a respected German weekly fairly neutral newspaper, in today's issue's front page top story shows a picture of Angela Merkel doing a selfie with an immigrant and the headline says "Merkel and immigrants, does she know what she is doing?"
It's a good question.