ChatterBank1 min ago
British Family Helping Thousands Of Refugees On Lesbos
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Much as one can empathise with this British family and others who give their time in helping these peoples, but when are they going to understand, it is not their or even our fault that these people chose to pay traffickers so as to cross the sea in unseaworthy vessels.
They themselves chose their course of action, and by helping them, it will only encourage more to take the gamble, and there is no end to the possible vast numbers that they are encouraging to risk their lives.
Much as one can empathise with this British family and others who give their time in helping these peoples, but when are they going to understand, it is not their or even our fault that these people chose to pay traffickers so as to cross the sea in unseaworthy vessels.
They themselves chose their course of action, and by helping them, it will only encourage more to take the gamble, and there is no end to the possible vast numbers that they are encouraging to risk their lives.
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“…helicopters dropping barrel bombs or tanks shelling your town would make you want to leave your home behind too.”
Quite so, hypo. Except:
(a) Only one in fiv of those currently on the move across Europe hails from Syria (the EU’s official figures) and
(b) They were leaving a perfectly safe environment in Turkey when setting out in their rubber boats. (Not heard too many reports of barrel bombs or tank shelling there).
In WWII there was nowhere for you to evacuate to - except the USA and a sea voyage would have been a roll of the dice, with U-boats about.
These two are a pair of idiots. All they are doing is further encouraging what is becoming increasingly untenable – tens, if not hundreds of thousands of people pitching up in Europe expecting to be fed, watered and accommodated. Those arriving in Lesbos are leaving Turkey. There is no need for them to leave (other than the fact that they don’t like it there and I doubt the Turks like having them). Having done so they are no longer refugees and have forfeited their right to claim asylum under the UN Convention.
Quite so, hypo. Except:
(a) Only one in fiv of those currently on the move across Europe hails from Syria (the EU’s official figures) and
(b) They were leaving a perfectly safe environment in Turkey when setting out in their rubber boats. (Not heard too many reports of barrel bombs or tank shelling there).
In WWII there was nowhere for you to evacuate to - except the USA and a sea voyage would have been a roll of the dice, with U-boats about.
These two are a pair of idiots. All they are doing is further encouraging what is becoming increasingly untenable – tens, if not hundreds of thousands of people pitching up in Europe expecting to be fed, watered and accommodated. Those arriving in Lesbos are leaving Turkey. There is no need for them to leave (other than the fact that they don’t like it there and I doubt the Turks like having them). Having done so they are no longer refugees and have forfeited their right to claim asylum under the UN Convention.
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May I update my own post from another thread which was ;
"And the real knock-on effect is.....
Thanks to the stupidity of, Chancellor Merkel and her completely useless interior minister, Thomas de Maiziere's encouragement to come, and without any plan what to do when they did, thousands arrived through Austria to Germany down south in Munich. The authorities there, not knowing what to do, put them on trains to other German cities, one being Stuttgart, where a repeat performance took place, and at 4:00am two nights ago, 600 were dropped off in a small town, population 4,000 five miles from me, and they too have nowhere for them. My village (population 350) has no spare accommodation, neither have any others, so what now Mrs Merkel?"
In the now established passing the parcel pattern a large group of these 600 (not yet sure how many) have today been dropped in a village (pop. 400) only 2 miles from us without warning. They have been put into the infants school which had just closed for renovation. AS there is no plan whatsoever what is now supposed to happen, they are being given sustenance by the villagers and nobody has any idea what is supposed to happen next.
"And the real knock-on effect is.....
Thanks to the stupidity of, Chancellor Merkel and her completely useless interior minister, Thomas de Maiziere's encouragement to come, and without any plan what to do when they did, thousands arrived through Austria to Germany down south in Munich. The authorities there, not knowing what to do, put them on trains to other German cities, one being Stuttgart, where a repeat performance took place, and at 4:00am two nights ago, 600 were dropped off in a small town, population 4,000 five miles from me, and they too have nowhere for them. My village (population 350) has no spare accommodation, neither have any others, so what now Mrs Merkel?"
In the now established passing the parcel pattern a large group of these 600 (not yet sure how many) have today been dropped in a village (pop. 400) only 2 miles from us without warning. They have been put into the infants school which had just closed for renovation. AS there is no plan whatsoever what is now supposed to happen, they are being given sustenance by the villagers and nobody has any idea what is supposed to happen next.
Yes quite. For utter stupidity Frau Merkel's invitation to 800,000 souls a couple of weeks ago must rate as one of the most idiotic "speech before brain engaged" episodes from a politician in recent years. That simple statement had an enormously profound effect on millions of people across Europe. The Euromaniacs need reining in urgently because their stupidity is now getting way beyond a joke.
-- answer removed --
@NewJudge
//(a) Only one in fiv of those currently on the move across Europe hails from Syria (the EU’s official figures)//
What??? Is this the world's fastest census operation? The first to survey hundreds of thousands of people who will not even keep still for more than a few rest breaks per day?
//(b) They were leaving a perfectly safe environment in Turkey //
Unless you're Kurdish??
// when setting out in their rubber boats. (Not heard too many reports of barrel bombs or tank shelling there). //
Point taken but I was arguing push factors so as to counter AOG's idea that news of help being given (in Greece) was driving the movement, like a conveyor belt.
If there's 2 million of them milling around in Turkey, what are the odds of them getting a job that pays enough to feed a family?
Then again, if there were 800,000 job vacancies in Germany, half of Eastern Europe's people would have moved there, bu now.
Britain rescued Jews, Poles, Czechs and so on, in WWII but we needed all hands on deck at the time, so they had work immediately. One Polish landlord (London area) told me he'd helped lay the concrete for airbase runways, among other things.
What we have now is a mass movement of people who don't realise that the economy required to support them is not portable. They also do not appreciate that the western economy depends on unemployment as a method of pay restraint and they merely swell the ranks of the unemployed (or low paid).
//(a) Only one in fiv of those currently on the move across Europe hails from Syria (the EU’s official figures)//
What??? Is this the world's fastest census operation? The first to survey hundreds of thousands of people who will not even keep still for more than a few rest breaks per day?
//(b) They were leaving a perfectly safe environment in Turkey //
Unless you're Kurdish??
// when setting out in their rubber boats. (Not heard too many reports of barrel bombs or tank shelling there). //
Point taken but I was arguing push factors so as to counter AOG's idea that news of help being given (in Greece) was driving the movement, like a conveyor belt.
If there's 2 million of them milling around in Turkey, what are the odds of them getting a job that pays enough to feed a family?
Then again, if there were 800,000 job vacancies in Germany, half of Eastern Europe's people would have moved there, bu now.
Britain rescued Jews, Poles, Czechs and so on, in WWII but we needed all hands on deck at the time, so they had work immediately. One Polish landlord (London area) told me he'd helped lay the concrete for airbase runways, among other things.
What we have now is a mass movement of people who don't realise that the economy required to support them is not portable. They also do not appreciate that the western economy depends on unemployment as a method of pay restraint and they merely swell the ranks of the unemployed (or low paid).
“If there's 2 million of them milling around in Turkey, what are the odds of them getting a job that pays enough to feed a family?”
Slim to none I imagine. But there are 2 million unemployed in the UK. They are receiving enough to feed a family (and a bit more besides) courtesy of the taxpayer. Perhaps a few of the 2m in Turkey should join them.
“What we have now is a mass movement of people who don't realise that the economy required to support them is not portable. They also do not appreciate that the western economy depends on unemployment as a method of pay restraint and they merely swell the ranks of the unemployed (or low paid).”
Then they need to be acquainted with those facts and finding ways to shuffle tens of thousands of people who have managed to illegally enter Greece, Serbia and other countries is not the way to provide that acquaintance.
Slim to none I imagine. But there are 2 million unemployed in the UK. They are receiving enough to feed a family (and a bit more besides) courtesy of the taxpayer. Perhaps a few of the 2m in Turkey should join them.
“What we have now is a mass movement of people who don't realise that the economy required to support them is not portable. They also do not appreciate that the western economy depends on unemployment as a method of pay restraint and they merely swell the ranks of the unemployed (or low paid).”
Then they need to be acquainted with those facts and finding ways to shuffle tens of thousands of people who have managed to illegally enter Greece, Serbia and other countries is not the way to provide that acquaintance.
@New_Judge
I know literally nothing about the state welfare system in Turkey. I can, however guess that it is either non existant or too slow acting or only lasts a limited number of weeks and this is what is pressuring them into leaving for Europe.
//Then they need to be acquainted with those facts //
I reckon it took me until my thirties to appreciate that the world did not owe me a living or even pay enough for me to be able to afford to raise a family. We are not even allowed to live a self-sufficient subsistence lifestyle because the land is owned by someone else. Employers are fond of reminding us that they are a business, not a charity and minimum wage ensures that it is cheaper to have the taxpayer support the people they decline to hire than to have another salary on the books.
I suspect the refugees are all still at the "world owes me (and my kids) a living stage. They will not be happy when reality hits them.
I know literally nothing about the state welfare system in Turkey. I can, however guess that it is either non existant or too slow acting or only lasts a limited number of weeks and this is what is pressuring them into leaving for Europe.
//Then they need to be acquainted with those facts //
I reckon it took me until my thirties to appreciate that the world did not owe me a living or even pay enough for me to be able to afford to raise a family. We are not even allowed to live a self-sufficient subsistence lifestyle because the land is owned by someone else. Employers are fond of reminding us that they are a business, not a charity and minimum wage ensures that it is cheaper to have the taxpayer support the people they decline to hire than to have another salary on the books.
I suspect the refugees are all still at the "world owes me (and my kids) a living stage. They will not be happy when reality hits them.
-- answer removed --
///and how are they getting by in Lebanon? is that famous Arab hospitality helping them out? ///
The billion quid we pay probably helps. (and in Turkey where I see you wondered about the lack of benefits)
Lebanon, which used to have a Christian majority, opened it's borders to refugees before. Palestinians. When they had built up their numbers sufficiently, ditto arms (via international aid) they repaid their hosts by launching a genocidal war against them. Christians are no longer in the majority.
The billion quid we pay probably helps. (and in Turkey where I see you wondered about the lack of benefits)
Lebanon, which used to have a Christian majority, opened it's borders to refugees before. Palestinians. When they had built up their numbers sufficiently, ditto arms (via international aid) they repaid their hosts by launching a genocidal war against them. Christians are no longer in the majority.
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