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Frightening, Sickening, But The Politicians Across Europe Are The Ones Responsible For This.
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What can be done before all this becomes out of control?
What can be done before all this becomes out of control?
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andy-hughes, you’re letting your imagination run away with you. These people are not necessarily //testosterone-fired gung-ho pseudo-soldier// types – if they were they would arguably have found something to fulfil their ambition before this problem arose. It seems to me that the real victims in all of this - the women who are attacked - are their prime consideration, and rightly so.
andy-hughes, ////Right. You have no solution to offer. You haven't a clue what to do except bleat it shouldn't happen and the governments should do something about it. //
// Let's not allow our vigorous debate be derailed by personal insults shall we? ////
There is no personal insult from Retrocop there, so let us not allow our vigorous debate to be derailed by spurious accusations again.
// Let's not allow our vigorous debate be derailed by personal insults shall we? ////
There is no personal insult from Retrocop there, so let us not allow our vigorous debate to be derailed by spurious accusations again.
//Let's not allow our vigorous debate be derailed by personal insults shall we? //
No insults from me but I see the usual cry of foul from you when you are unable to answer a question put to you.
I ask you again,"what is your immediate answer to the immediate problem if the correct procedures are not protecting the citizenry?
Come on. Are you capable of thinking on your feet or is your only answer,"it shouldn't happen"?
No insults from me but I see the usual cry of foul from you when you are unable to answer a question put to you.
I ask you again,"what is your immediate answer to the immediate problem if the correct procedures are not protecting the citizenry?
Come on. Are you capable of thinking on your feet or is your only answer,"it shouldn't happen"?
-- answer removed --
retrocop - ////Let's not allow our vigorous debate be derailed by personal insults shall we? //
No insults from me but I see the usual cry of foul from you when you are unable to answer a question put to you. //
Obviously you don't think you were offensive - I think you were, we can agree to differ.
But I didn't make that point because I don't have an answer - that was coincidence.
I have said several times over this question, which is debated regularly, that I don't have an answer.
I don't happen to think that makes me a bad person, or that because you have a solution, that your solution must be the correct one because it is the only one on offer.
//I ask you again,"what is your immediate answer to the immediate problem if the correct procedures are not protecting the citizenry?
Come on. Are you capable of thinking on your feet or is your only answer,"it shouldn't happen"?//
Please see the paragraph above - I am capable of thinking on my feet, please don't use that hectoring tone, I am not cowed by your approach simply because we disagree.
No insults from me but I see the usual cry of foul from you when you are unable to answer a question put to you. //
Obviously you don't think you were offensive - I think you were, we can agree to differ.
But I didn't make that point because I don't have an answer - that was coincidence.
I have said several times over this question, which is debated regularly, that I don't have an answer.
I don't happen to think that makes me a bad person, or that because you have a solution, that your solution must be the correct one because it is the only one on offer.
//I ask you again,"what is your immediate answer to the immediate problem if the correct procedures are not protecting the citizenry?
Come on. Are you capable of thinking on your feet or is your only answer,"it shouldn't happen"?//
Please see the paragraph above - I am capable of thinking on my feet, please don't use that hectoring tone, I am not cowed by your approach simply because we disagree.
//Time to re-read Lord Of The Flies methinks! //
If I remember correctly this was about a group of SCHOOLCHILDREN marooned on an island without parental or adult supervision. Says it all really,
condescending attitude towards the adults who have decided that action is preferable to hand wringing and virtue signalling. Maybe Coral Island suits some of the blinkered naïve better.
If I remember correctly this was about a group of SCHOOLCHILDREN marooned on an island without parental or adult supervision. Says it all really,
condescending attitude towards the adults who have decided that action is preferable to hand wringing and virtue signalling. Maybe Coral Island suits some of the blinkered naïve better.
mikey4444
/// Viv...anyone who wants to put words into my mouth. I didn't say that YOU were a racist, but this Finnish thugs most certainly are. ///
What just because the rapists happen to be foreigners is it mikey?
By your reasoning any nation that goes to war against another nation, are also racists then?
/// Viv...anyone who wants to put words into my mouth. I didn't say that YOU were a racist, but this Finnish thugs most certainly are. ///
What just because the rapists happen to be foreigners is it mikey?
By your reasoning any nation that goes to war against another nation, are also racists then?
A-H
//2. My argument against it is that this sort of gang mentality only escalates if allowed to proliferate.
It starts with a few like-minded men patrolling streets to provide a 'preseence' to intimidate would-be criminals.
Then they get a 'uniform', and start 'meetings' and invest in a 'hierarchy', with pseudo-military structure.
Then they carry base-ball bats(SUBSTITUTE PITCHFORKS) in case they need to 'pursuade' some people to leave their area.
Then they carry guns.
Then they start actively harassing members of the community from which the wrong-doers (long since driven out) come. //
That is where the Finns went wrong. They should of called themselves the LDV.
Same sentiments though. The protection of their fellow citizens.
Done any service to your country Andy. Have you ever experienced discipline apart from school?
//According to Finnish Defence Forces 2011 data slightly under 80% of Finnish males turned 30 had entered and finished the military service.//
Despite their appearance these vigilantes may have more experience of organisation and discipline than you do.!
//2. My argument against it is that this sort of gang mentality only escalates if allowed to proliferate.
It starts with a few like-minded men patrolling streets to provide a 'preseence' to intimidate would-be criminals.
Then they get a 'uniform', and start 'meetings' and invest in a 'hierarchy', with pseudo-military structure.
Then they carry base-ball bats(SUBSTITUTE PITCHFORKS) in case they need to 'pursuade' some people to leave their area.
Then they carry guns.
Then they start actively harassing members of the community from which the wrong-doers (long since driven out) come. //
That is where the Finns went wrong. They should of called themselves the LDV.
Same sentiments though. The protection of their fellow citizens.
Done any service to your country Andy. Have you ever experienced discipline apart from school?
//According to Finnish Defence Forces 2011 data slightly under 80% of Finnish males turned 30 had entered and finished the military service.//
Despite their appearance these vigilantes may have more experience of organisation and discipline than you do.!
Togo - ////Time to re-read Lord Of The Flies methinks! //
If I remember correctly this was about a group of SCHOOLCHILDREN marooned on an island without parental or adult supervision. Says it all really, //
May I suggest that if you are taking the story at face value, then you are missing the point that the author made - that humanity, if left without laws and rules, descends into savagery and survival of the fittest, with attendant gang-forming and pseudo-hierarchies being quickly put in place. The fact that this is children merely underlines the point - humanity needs laws and rules to prevent savagery and murder.
// condescending attitude towards the adults who have decided that action is preferable to hand wringing and virtue signalling. Maybe Coral Island suits some of the blinkered naïve better. //
I think you mean 'no action' - ?
But I have never advocated ' no action' - just that the vigilante approach is absolutely not the right action.
If I remember correctly this was about a group of SCHOOLCHILDREN marooned on an island without parental or adult supervision. Says it all really, //
May I suggest that if you are taking the story at face value, then you are missing the point that the author made - that humanity, if left without laws and rules, descends into savagery and survival of the fittest, with attendant gang-forming and pseudo-hierarchies being quickly put in place. The fact that this is children merely underlines the point - humanity needs laws and rules to prevent savagery and murder.
// condescending attitude towards the adults who have decided that action is preferable to hand wringing and virtue signalling. Maybe Coral Island suits some of the blinkered naïve better. //
I think you mean 'no action' - ?
But I have never advocated ' no action' - just that the vigilante approach is absolutely not the right action.
retrocop - //Despite their appearance these vigilantes may have more experience of organisation and discipline than you do.! //
And how do you know that?
Last time I checked, I had not revealed my experience of organisation and discipline to you - so your point is unfounded.
And your observation about vigilantes'' approach to organisation and discipline can only be credible if you are speaking from personal experience.
I don't think you are!
And how do you know that?
Last time I checked, I had not revealed my experience of organisation and discipline to you - so your point is unfounded.
And your observation about vigilantes'' approach to organisation and discipline can only be credible if you are speaking from personal experience.
I don't think you are!
retrocop - //A-H
You really must get out of the office more. "Insults -Hectoring". Good grief. You are a tad too sensitive for the real world if that is your interpretation.I pity you.
You have dug yourself a hole and now you cry foul again !!! //
That's side-tracking - forgive me if I don't join in.
You really must get out of the office more. "Insults -Hectoring". Good grief. You are a tad too sensitive for the real world if that is your interpretation.I pity you.
You have dug yourself a hole and now you cry foul again !!! //
That's side-tracking - forgive me if I don't join in.
retrocop - ////But I have never advocated ' no action' - just that the vigilante approach is absolutely not the right action.//
It is not the right action but as things stand at the moment it is the only action available and you cannot provide an alternative!! //
And that is the crux of our disagreement - you are willing to accept an unsuitable course of action, rather than no course of action.
I think that a suitable course of action can, and should be found, and the unsuitable course of action remains, and will always remain, just that - unsuitable.
It is not the right action but as things stand at the moment it is the only action available and you cannot provide an alternative!! //
And that is the crux of our disagreement - you are willing to accept an unsuitable course of action, rather than no course of action.
I think that a suitable course of action can, and should be found, and the unsuitable course of action remains, and will always remain, just that - unsuitable.
retrocop - //I am outta here. You are taking this round in circles and becoming over sensitive. That is when I start seeing answers removed which I note has already started. Criticism but no viable solution offered!
Good OP Mr aog but I fear it may go the way of your others.!! //
I am sorry you are leaving the debate, but I concede that our exchanges have probably reached a natural end, we must agree to differ in our respective positions.
I would only say, in terms of being 'over-sensitive' - I have already expressed my view on one of your more 'forcefully expressed' opinions on my position, but obviously we are not going to debate that further because it is off-thread, and will bore everyone else reading.
Thank you for a stimulating exchange - see you on the next one.
Good OP Mr aog but I fear it may go the way of your others.!! //
I am sorry you are leaving the debate, but I concede that our exchanges have probably reached a natural end, we must agree to differ in our respective positions.
I would only say, in terms of being 'over-sensitive' - I have already expressed my view on one of your more 'forcefully expressed' opinions on my position, but obviously we are not going to debate that further because it is off-thread, and will bore everyone else reading.
Thank you for a stimulating exchange - see you on the next one.
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