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Eu Referendum: Leaving Eu A 'leap In The Dark' Says Cameron
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As time goes on, I am having more and more respect for dave. In fact, I am going to capitalise him from today onward !
This will, of course, cause merriment amongst the lesser of our resident right-wingers here on AB !
But don't worry...I am still a committed Labour supporter, and Old Labour at that, but credit to Dave here...he is trying his best. He is being Statemens-like, as our PM should be.
As time goes on, I am having more and more respect for dave. In fact, I am going to capitalise him from today onward !
This will, of course, cause merriment amongst the lesser of our resident right-wingers here on AB !
But don't worry...I am still a committed Labour supporter, and Old Labour at that, but credit to Dave here...he is trying his best. He is being Statemens-like, as our PM should be.
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Different folk will prioritise different aspects but for me it's mainly about regaining control of our sovereignty instead of not having a nation worth the name but a being a mere part of an corrupt and undemocratic continent sized morass.
If we get that then we also wont be tapped as suckers to pay for other country's citizens welfare and suchlike. Things that are unthinkable to any fair minded individual but which our leaders seem to have lumbered us with when they took us into this disaster and claimed it was a trading block.
The trouble with the last referendum is going to be much the same as with this one. Few will be capable or enthusiastic enough to analyse the official documentation and will have to take the word of respected people as to what it means. There were unabashed lies last time and it turned out most mistook which were the lies and which genuine warnings. It will be the same again this time with folk choosing to believe the spokesmen and woman who most closely matches their own preformed view, rather than being able to be sure they are hearing the truth, and make up their mind based on that.
If we get that then we also wont be tapped as suckers to pay for other country's citizens welfare and suchlike. Things that are unthinkable to any fair minded individual but which our leaders seem to have lumbered us with when they took us into this disaster and claimed it was a trading block.
The trouble with the last referendum is going to be much the same as with this one. Few will be capable or enthusiastic enough to analyse the official documentation and will have to take the word of respected people as to what it means. There were unabashed lies last time and it turned out most mistook which were the lies and which genuine warnings. It will be the same again this time with folk choosing to believe the spokesmen and woman who most closely matches their own preformed view, rather than being able to be sure they are hearing the truth, and make up their mind based on that.
@Old_Geezer
//If we get that then we also wont be tapped as suckers to pay for other country's citizens welfare and suchlike.//
I must resist the urge you tell you the tale of the lunchtime drinks kitty (a source of personal embarassment to me but a vital life lesson about the perils of collectivism). In the meantime, I'd happily offer an (atheist) prayer for sovereignty to be restored, asap.
//Things that are unthinkable to any fair minded individual but which our leaders seem to have lumbered us with when they took us into this disaster and claimed it was a trading block. //
Their income *after tax* must permit such a comfortable lifestyle that they simply don't feel any pain or irritation from such deductions or never find themselves uttering the phrase "I can't afford that, on my salary". The proposed above-inflation raise can only further disconnect them from what the electorate have had to go through, of late.
In a recent Sunday Politics (Wales segment) the presenter and debaters settled on £45 million !!per day!! being our *net* contribution to the EU. Unless our much vaunted financial services sector are clawing most of this back (in "fees") and just hiding it via accounting trickery, I want a detailed analysis of what (or who) it all gets spent on. So should all of us.
Out campaign urgently needs to adopt a cow & milking machine logo because that is what we seem to have been reduced to (economic successes as we, nevertheless, have recently been declared to be).
Mohhh (chew, chew, chew)
//If we get that then we also wont be tapped as suckers to pay for other country's citizens welfare and suchlike.//
I must resist the urge you tell you the tale of the lunchtime drinks kitty (a source of personal embarassment to me but a vital life lesson about the perils of collectivism). In the meantime, I'd happily offer an (atheist) prayer for sovereignty to be restored, asap.
//Things that are unthinkable to any fair minded individual but which our leaders seem to have lumbered us with when they took us into this disaster and claimed it was a trading block. //
Their income *after tax* must permit such a comfortable lifestyle that they simply don't feel any pain or irritation from such deductions or never find themselves uttering the phrase "I can't afford that, on my salary". The proposed above-inflation raise can only further disconnect them from what the electorate have had to go through, of late.
In a recent Sunday Politics (Wales segment) the presenter and debaters settled on £45 million !!per day!! being our *net* contribution to the EU. Unless our much vaunted financial services sector are clawing most of this back (in "fees") and just hiding it via accounting trickery, I want a detailed analysis of what (or who) it all gets spent on. So should all of us.
Out campaign urgently needs to adopt a cow & milking machine logo because that is what we seem to have been reduced to (economic successes as we, nevertheless, have recently been declared to be).
Mohhh (chew, chew, chew)
Nicola Sturgeon said that a vote to leave the EU would trigger a second referendum on Independence. Do you think that invites those who are pro-independence but in favour of staying in the EU to vote tactically in the EU referendum? It seems to me that a vote to leave would suit them fine as they would almost certainly reverse that with another referendum on independence.
Well that bit of news of mikey's sudden respect for our (Tory) Prime Minister, should have made a large proportion of our 'Don't Knows' immediately join the 'OUT' supporters.
But what I fail to understand is the fact that Labour is supposedly in support of the working man, but since most of the ordinary working person has not seen a wage increase in years, it can only be because of the influx of cheap labour from the Eastern European countries.
But perhaps Labour's main concern is not the British working man, but more to do with multi immigration, which in turn they hope to increase their supportive votes.
But what I fail to understand is the fact that Labour is supposedly in support of the working man, but since most of the ordinary working person has not seen a wage increase in years, it can only be because of the influx of cheap labour from the Eastern European countries.
But perhaps Labour's main concern is not the British working man, but more to do with multi immigration, which in turn they hope to increase their supportive votes.
"A leap in the dark"?
That's a good one coming from a person (Dave) who forever wants to keep us in the dark.
But some of us are not only a little more intelligent, but have also lived long enough to have gained many years of life skills, and to know that if one looks in dark corners there are many things one may discover.
That's a good one coming from a person (Dave) who forever wants to keep us in the dark.
But some of us are not only a little more intelligent, but have also lived long enough to have gained many years of life skills, and to know that if one looks in dark corners there are many things one may discover.
-- answer removed --
I note that UKIP like to stress the entirety of UK's payments in, versus grants handed back, whereas a more granular analysis might reveal that Scotland, Wales, N.I. and some of the more deprived parts of England are net beneficiaries of EU. In effect, having EU decide to redistribute UK tax take to where it is most needed, in a manner in which London-boosting Westminster piticiams wouldn't do, if we were no longer in the club.
Nichola's EU-philia clearly centres on this belief that Scotland would be quids in. (How Scotland is supposed to meet EU entry terms when it lacks its own currency is probably something she has overlooked).
My instincts still say out because, to have MEPs and an additional layer of beaurocrats, over and above existing sovereign administrations means no country could ever get back 100% of what it paid in.
Alternatively, if you want to be in EU, then press for the dismantling of Westminster and the devolved parliaments in Scotland and Wales *and* most of our Civil Service because all this duplicate governmental effort is being funded by the beleagured taxpayer.
Nichola's EU-philia clearly centres on this belief that Scotland would be quids in. (How Scotland is supposed to meet EU entry terms when it lacks its own currency is probably something she has overlooked).
My instincts still say out because, to have MEPs and an additional layer of beaurocrats, over and above existing sovereign administrations means no country could ever get back 100% of what it paid in.
Alternatively, if you want to be in EU, then press for the dismantling of Westminster and the devolved parliaments in Scotland and Wales *and* most of our Civil Service because all this duplicate governmental effort is being funded by the beleagured taxpayer.
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