Is It Now Time That This Foreign Aid Madness Was Ended?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/foreignaid/article-3520878/A-nation-roars-official-foreign-aid-e-petition-biggest-newspaper-fastest-100-000-secured-Commons-debate-YOU.html

[sp1814]

Hmmm...perhaps the abolition of all benefits is a little draconian.

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

Can I remind you once again this thread is not about State Pensions, it is about overseas aid.

But since you seem to have a problem with the elderly receiving a state pension, does your Mum and Dad receive a state pension yet, and how long have they paid in?

[sp1814]

bigbad

Err...I really don't think the key passage in your post was nationality...the key bit was 'time to let nature take its course'.

That's the bit that I think a lot of people will find difficult to stomach.

But you know...to some extent, I can see where you're coming from.

Every year when we have floods and see pictures of people with their bottom lips a-quivering as they survey their ruined homes I think, "Yeah, well...whatever."

I'm not proud of that, but it makes me understand where you're coming from. It's like every flipping year!!!

[sp1814]

AOG

Dead dad and mum's still working.

Mum has dad's workplace pension, and she has one herself.

I told her that she needs to make provision for herself, because she's not going to live with me when she becomes unsteady on her feet.

I would worry that whilst I'm out of the house, she might have a fall and break something.

...like a vase.

[fiction-factory]

I agree that the thread has gone off track with this talk of pensions (it's usually diverted the other way with pensions/benefits threads diverted by talk of immigrants)- but as you asked about pensions AOG I think you too may have misread what sp said

[sp1814]

divebuddy

I see where you're going wrong.

What I'm doing is giving an opinion.

All I've done here is reconsider what I've said because it's overly extreme.

But you know what...in some circumstances, invalidity benefit could also be taken out of the hands of the government too,

[sp1814]

AOG

I'm going to try for the fifth time to put this pensions thing to bed.

My idea is to take the administration of pensions out of the hands of the government and instead release the funds to employees to invest in private pension schemes.

One of the big undisclosed benefits of this is that (say) someone discovers they have an incurable illness, they can apply for their pension pot to be released before retirement age, thereby funding their treatment (or, if they so wish - blowing it on a world cruise).

So...to summarise - pensions, and the administration of pensions taken out of the hands of the state, and instead given to the people.

Do you see what I mean?

[New Judge]

Most things can be taken out of the hands of the government, including overseas aid. There's no reason to take money from people to service a £12bn loan and then give £12bn to (mainly corrupt) foreigners.

If foreign aid is so beneficial to the country (as some would have us believe) private companies could be set up to tempt investors to part with their hard-earned and in return they could reap the rewards of the fantastic advantages that foreign aid brings to the UK.

Or perhaps not.

[sp1814]

The same could be applied to unemployment benefit too.

Imagine a system whereby instead of paying NI to the government, instead you were allowed to invest the same funds into a private unemployment scheme...but here's where it would get really interesting...unlike (say) car insurance, unemployment insurance would work like an investment fund. After ten years of not claiming, you'd get a lump sum back.

It would be in all our best interests to remain in employment.

It would have both the elements of carrot and stick.

And the principle of reduced NI to fund sickness benefits also (IMO) works.

[New Judge]

"So...to summarise - pensions, and the administration of pensions taken out of the hands of the state, and instead given to the people.

Do you see what I mean? "

Absolutely. Alas there is a snag. It is estimated that about 30% of the £92bn paid annually in "pensions" has not been funded by the recipients. They still get a "Pension" nonetheless (even if it's disguised as "Pension Credit"). What will happen to those who have paid nothing in to their own scheme under your plan?

[New Judge]

And once again, with the "unemployment insurance", what happens to those who don't pay the premiums?

[fiction-factory]

Aside from UKIP, most parties (Lab, Con, SNP, Lib Dem, Greens) seem to support the current level of aid (in fact some want to increase it) so there is little prospect unfortunately of even a token trimming back. But even if we stopped it, £12 Billion is not going to make a huge difference to us

[sp1814]

NJ

There is a real danger that people are being short-sighted on the question of aid...and I would suggest that people need to look at the role of 'soft power'.

It's a phrase that I first heard a few years ago and I've found an article which explains it a lot better than I. Basically, 'soft power' is the links that we have with developing regions and emerging economies, built on bipartisan aid. We have 'a presence', which in time forms payback for both private and national enterprise.

This is from a Telegraph article last year:

Our international development spending is also in our long-term economic interests. By generating employment, fostering trade, developing markets and increasing people’s ability to earn a living, UK aid provides enormous opportunities for sustainable economic growth.

We have seen developing countries become emerging economies, and emerging economies become the engines of future global growth and prosperity. Where the UK’s development assistance has played a role in this process, we build strong links and create powerful trading partners for the future. In time such countries are likely to look to London for their capital and financing requirements.

[sp1814]

NJ

You asked:

What will happen to those who have paid nothing in to their own scheme under your plan?

Do you REALLY want to see my Thatcherite side?

[sp1814]

But back to foreign aid.

This is the article I was referring to:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/greenpolitics/developingworld/11463658/Spending-more-on-foreign-aid-makes-Britain-richer-safer-and-morally-better.html

And remember...this is from the Telegraph, not the New Statemen or one of 'the usual suspects'.

Some very well balanced thoughts in there.

[Bigbad]

sp. So why specifically mention Africans then?

And don’t even go there comparing my comments about overseas aid with your inability to empathise with decent hardworking people who lose their homes to flooding!
These people pay insurance in case of such a situation, and do not expect the rest of the UK to put their hands in their pockets to help them out.

You would rather double overseas aid to help the parasitic foreigners that cannot afford to have children, but remove it altogether from the British who cannot afford to have children.
At least some of the UK benefits are taxable, but I doubt the recipients of overseas aid pay back anything to our coffers

[Everhelpful]

Should never have started in the first place,AOG.!!

[sp1814]

Bigbad

Oh, I see...if you look back earlier in this thread, the continent that has been singled out is Africa. That's why I had that on the brain.

How do you know flood victims are hardworking?

And if I'm to be honest, yes - I genuinely feel more sympathy when I see videos of children dying because they are forced to walk 20 miles to drink unsanitary water...than the sight of someone who has to move into a hotel and have had their X-Box ruined by flood water.

For me it's 'Slow painful death' vs. 'Inability to play Grand Theft Auto'