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The European Union: In Or Out?
This poll is closed.
If the EU referendum happened tomorrow, which way would you vote?
- Out - 208 votes
- 70%
- In - 91 votes
- 30%
Stats until: 18:56 Tue 03rd Dec 2024 (Refreshed every 5 minutes)
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I don't know why we don't have a system that if a job is advertised, it has to be offered to a Brit for x weeks or y months, depending on what the job is, perhaps - and then, if an appropriate candidate has not been found, then it can be offered in the EU. Now I say a Brit but this could equally apply for a job offered by the Frogs, the Itais, Poles, Finns or wherever, within the union.
The Americans were thinking about a similar system for their immigrant problem from Hispania, limiting access to medical insurance, no families allowed in for a period of x years, etc etc - and maybe aspects of that could be considered. It would certainly reduce the effect of any Turks down the line - and the Albanians, there's less of them than Scots (and given the Blessed Nicola (see her latest poster ad), they may become emigrants.
The Americans were thinking about a similar system for their immigrant problem from Hispania, limiting access to medical insurance, no families allowed in for a period of x years, etc etc - and maybe aspects of that could be considered. It would certainly reduce the effect of any Turks down the line - and the Albanians, there's less of them than Scots (and given the Blessed Nicola (see her latest poster ad), they may become emigrants.
But there are many more of our own dole bludgers Talbot...that is why.
On the estate where I live, there many people who have never worked, all of them white anglo-saxon. Apart from a few weeks unemployment a few years ago, I have worked since I was 16, and I am still working now at the age of 62. I am fed up with my taxes going to these dole bludgers.
But the same goes to whoever is unemployed, claiming benefits and refusing to take up the jobs that are available, irrespective of race and origin...they should be offered jobs and when they refuse, their benefits should be removed.
After all, its hardly new is it ? Isn't that the way the system is supposed to work.
On the estate where I live, there many people who have never worked, all of them white anglo-saxon. Apart from a few weeks unemployment a few years ago, I have worked since I was 16, and I am still working now at the age of 62. I am fed up with my taxes going to these dole bludgers.
But the same goes to whoever is unemployed, claiming benefits and refusing to take up the jobs that are available, irrespective of race and origin...they should be offered jobs and when they refuse, their benefits should be removed.
After all, its hardly new is it ? Isn't that the way the system is supposed to work.
You do seem to push it as a British disease, mikey ... laziness is to be found everywhere.
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Mikey.
Thank you for your post at 15.56.
As far as Brits working abroad, if they are doing jobs that leave the people of that country out of work, then that is of course as unfair as what happens here.
What appears to be largely forgotten, is that when these people breed (using our NHS), their offspring are automatically British citizens, so the more foreigners we invite in, the more overloaded we become, and this has a knock on effect for future generations.
As far as medical staff go, we need to address why we are so short of "home grown" people. I have just seen my local news covering the junior doctors strike at my nearest hospital, and played "spot the white person".
When I left school, lots of girls went on to become nurses. (Not being sexist here, but it is a predominantly female profession).
No, you can't take dole scroungers and force them into the medical profession, but we do seem to agree that these scroungers should be made to do the unskilled jobs or lose their benefits.
I don't agree however, about humanitarian aid.
Every country should put its own citizens first, whether a prosperous country or not, and that will not happen if we vote to stay.
If we ever find that we have full employment, no homeless, no waiting for medical treatment, nobody needing food banks, and a government that has actually got money to spare rather than having to borrow, then I may reconsider.
But I'm not naive enough to think that is likely to happen.
Thank you for your post at 15.56.
As far as Brits working abroad, if they are doing jobs that leave the people of that country out of work, then that is of course as unfair as what happens here.
What appears to be largely forgotten, is that when these people breed (using our NHS), their offspring are automatically British citizens, so the more foreigners we invite in, the more overloaded we become, and this has a knock on effect for future generations.
As far as medical staff go, we need to address why we are so short of "home grown" people. I have just seen my local news covering the junior doctors strike at my nearest hospital, and played "spot the white person".
When I left school, lots of girls went on to become nurses. (Not being sexist here, but it is a predominantly female profession).
No, you can't take dole scroungers and force them into the medical profession, but we do seem to agree that these scroungers should be made to do the unskilled jobs or lose their benefits.
I don't agree however, about humanitarian aid.
Every country should put its own citizens first, whether a prosperous country or not, and that will not happen if we vote to stay.
If we ever find that we have full employment, no homeless, no waiting for medical treatment, nobody needing food banks, and a government that has actually got money to spare rather than having to borrow, then I may reconsider.
But I'm not naive enough to think that is likely to happen.
We’re losing the plot here. We’ve moved on to “free movement” but this question is still about the EU.
At present the UK has no right to refuse entry to anybody from 27 other countries who wants to settle here. They need have no job, no skills, no money, no income, nowhere to live. They are entitled to settle here and be immediately eligible for free healthcare, education for their children and will almost certainly be near the top of the list for social housing because of their impecuniosity. This is a condition, we are told, of having access to the “Single Market”. No other country on earth (outside the EU, natch) would tolerate such an imposition.
There seems to be the impression among some that only the EU can facilitate the movement of labour. Not so. People from the UK go to work in other countries outside the EU; people from outside the EU come to work in the UK. The EU is not the only institution that can facilitate the exchange of labour. What the EU does, though, is to also facilitate the free movement of non-labour. Other nations control who comes to settle within their borders. They choose who comes. People without a visible means of support and/or without a job to come to or skills that are needed are not invited.
If the UK left the EU people like Mikey’s bricklayer brother would still be able to go to work in Germany – provided they were invited because Germany needed bricklayers. Cabbage pickers would still be able to come from Poland to Lincolnshire – provided they were invited because Lincolnshire needed cabbage pickers. The difference would be that we would not also have to accept the Romanian gipsies currently kipping in the subways beneath Marble Arch.
If the UK cannot get its feckless inhabitants off their *** to pick cabbages it does not mean Lincolnshire farmers will have to watch their cabbages rot in the ground. Foreign workers can still be invited to work here as they were from the Commonwealth in the 1950s and 60s. Huge numbers of workers work in the UK who have arrived from outside the EU. The EU is not necessary to ensure that a flow of necessary labour is maintained and it is preposterous to suggest that it is. But leaving the EU is necessary if the country is to control the numbers kipping beneath Marble Arch.
At present the UK has no right to refuse entry to anybody from 27 other countries who wants to settle here. They need have no job, no skills, no money, no income, nowhere to live. They are entitled to settle here and be immediately eligible for free healthcare, education for their children and will almost certainly be near the top of the list for social housing because of their impecuniosity. This is a condition, we are told, of having access to the “Single Market”. No other country on earth (outside the EU, natch) would tolerate such an imposition.
There seems to be the impression among some that only the EU can facilitate the movement of labour. Not so. People from the UK go to work in other countries outside the EU; people from outside the EU come to work in the UK. The EU is not the only institution that can facilitate the exchange of labour. What the EU does, though, is to also facilitate the free movement of non-labour. Other nations control who comes to settle within their borders. They choose who comes. People without a visible means of support and/or without a job to come to or skills that are needed are not invited.
If the UK left the EU people like Mikey’s bricklayer brother would still be able to go to work in Germany – provided they were invited because Germany needed bricklayers. Cabbage pickers would still be able to come from Poland to Lincolnshire – provided they were invited because Lincolnshire needed cabbage pickers. The difference would be that we would not also have to accept the Romanian gipsies currently kipping in the subways beneath Marble Arch.
If the UK cannot get its feckless inhabitants off their *** to pick cabbages it does not mean Lincolnshire farmers will have to watch their cabbages rot in the ground. Foreign workers can still be invited to work here as they were from the Commonwealth in the 1950s and 60s. Huge numbers of workers work in the UK who have arrived from outside the EU. The EU is not necessary to ensure that a flow of necessary labour is maintained and it is preposterous to suggest that it is. But leaving the EU is necessary if the country is to control the numbers kipping beneath Marble Arch.
Nailed judge, and whilst we talk of cabbages.
Pythagoras's theorem - 24 words.
Lord's Prayer - 66 words.
Archimedes Principle - 67 words.
10 Commandments - 179 words.
Gettysburg address - 286 words.
U.S. Declaration of Independence - 1,300 words.
U.S. Constitution with all 27 Amendments - 7,818 words.
EU regulations on the sale of cabbage - 26,911 words.
Pythagoras's theorem - 24 words.
Lord's Prayer - 66 words.
Archimedes Principle - 67 words.
10 Commandments - 179 words.
Gettysburg address - 286 words.
U.S. Declaration of Independence - 1,300 words.
U.S. Constitution with all 27 Amendments - 7,818 words.
EU regulations on the sale of cabbage - 26,911 words.
"Every country should put its own citizens first, whether a prosperous country or not, and that will not happen if we vote to stay."
It won't happen if we leave either, bigbad. As I explained in a question last week, the UK's outrageous decision to borrow £12bn pa to lavish abroad has nothing to do with our EU membership. Politicians like spending other people's money on foreigners. It makes them feel good.
It won't happen if we leave either, bigbad. As I explained in a question last week, the UK's outrageous decision to borrow £12bn pa to lavish abroad has nothing to do with our EU membership. Politicians like spending other people's money on foreigners. It makes them feel good.
You may well be right, New Judge, but it sure as hell won't happen if we stay.
Giving money to foreigners/foreign countries is right at the top of my "pi***s me off" list.
The way I look at is this - voting to stay means things stay as they are and probably get a lot worse.
The real outcome of voting to leave may not be known for a few years (if it happens), but if we no longer have to pay to be members of the European Union, (which is giving money to foreigners) then maybe more British money can go to British people/services.
Giving money to foreigners/foreign countries is right at the top of my "pi***s me off" list.
The way I look at is this - voting to stay means things stay as they are and probably get a lot worse.
The real outcome of voting to leave may not be known for a few years (if it happens), but if we no longer have to pay to be members of the European Union, (which is giving money to foreigners) then maybe more British money can go to British people/services.
Well BHG, good to hear you are happy helping people who are genuinely in need; but skivers are by far a minority of the population an so can not reasonably be used as an excuse to expect someone to take any job at any wage. Otherwise you can come and sort out my garden. I pay 2p for a 80 hour week, no expenses paid. Apparently if and when you are unemployed you will feel obliged to take the job.
Either there is a limit on how fellow citizens are taken advantage of, or there is not.
I just find it astounding that some who claim to approve of left of centre politics would approve of this sort of thing given the two are in direct opposition. It is a right wing ideology that everyone can do whatever they want (such as offer ridiculous remuneration for effort demanded) and anyone else daft enough to get caught up in the process it's their own fault for not avoiding it.
Either there is a limit on how fellow citizens are taken advantage of, or there is not.
I just find it astounding that some who claim to approve of left of centre politics would approve of this sort of thing given the two are in direct opposition. It is a right wing ideology that everyone can do whatever they want (such as offer ridiculous remuneration for effort demanded) and anyone else daft enough to get caught up in the process it's their own fault for not avoiding it.
It makes me wonder Geezer, why are the unions not screaming blue murder about imported cheap labour? It is probably the only grievance that would have been backed and supported by the majority of Britain, yet strangely mute on that one. Cheap cars, cheap steel, cheap clothes etc. etc. strike. Cheap labour.......... not a peep.
Togo...why this claim of cheap labour ? I can't find much evidence that the eastern European people are paid any less than our own people doing the same job.
My contact in West Cornwall pays all his agricultural workers the same as the few indigenous Cornish that he employs. But he says that the Polish (mainly) people he has, are a lot more reliable, so are valued even more. That is why he goes to Poland very year, on a recruitment drive. He would happily employ more Cornish people who are out of work, but he just can't find enough.
My contact in West Cornwall pays all his agricultural workers the same as the few indigenous Cornish that he employs. But he says that the Polish (mainly) people he has, are a lot more reliable, so are valued even more. That is why he goes to Poland very year, on a recruitment drive. He would happily employ more Cornish people who are out of work, but he just can't find enough.
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