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So Did Labour Do Enough To Save Jezza?
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Do they have any chance at the next general election? Should they change leader or would that just make it worse?
Do they have any chance at the next general election? Should they change leader or would that just make it worse?
Answers
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Of course they have a chance, at the moment not a very good one admittedly, but a lot can happen in the next few years. If there are too many Tory U-turns then that will cast doubt in many voters minds as to their credibility to think things through properly.
Corbyn should stick around for a while longer.He has defied massive odds before so who knows...
Corbyn should stick around for a while longer.He has defied massive odds before so who knows...
I think Khandro's "to whom" sums it up nicely. If Labour had been utterly routed in England (as well as Scotland), maybe it would have been worth trawling the party for someone less toxic. But they weren't, although it wasn't a resounding success either.
Given the potential nightmare teh Tories may face, seems to me that this is the time for Labour to just go for unity, or as much of it as is possible. Anti-Corbyn MPs can't carry on "plotting" against their leader and expect this to be a good strategy. Replace him now, or not at all, and leave the infighting to the Tory party.
Given the potential nightmare teh Tories may face, seems to me that this is the time for Labour to just go for unity, or as much of it as is possible. Anti-Corbyn MPs can't carry on "plotting" against their leader and expect this to be a good strategy. Replace him now, or not at all, and leave the infighting to the Tory party.
In the real world (or at least my part of it) rather than the agenda driven pages of the national press, Mr Corbyn is
a: respected for his integrity - even if you don't agree with him, he is at least consistent and not prone to trimming and wobbling to chase an often illusory electoral advantage
b: regarded as doing a decent job in opposing the money-driven, "privatisation at all costs" obsessions of the Tory front bench
I'm not just talking about Labour Party die-hards here either - a lot of natural Tory Voters from the professions are appalled at the destruction being wreaked on the NHS and State Education and are (often to their own surprise) finding much sense in Corbyn's opposition.
This may come as a surprise to the keyboard warriors on here who believe everything that The Mail tells them - perhaps they should get out a bit more and talk to some real people ...
a: respected for his integrity - even if you don't agree with him, he is at least consistent and not prone to trimming and wobbling to chase an often illusory electoral advantage
b: regarded as doing a decent job in opposing the money-driven, "privatisation at all costs" obsessions of the Tory front bench
I'm not just talking about Labour Party die-hards here either - a lot of natural Tory Voters from the professions are appalled at the destruction being wreaked on the NHS and State Education and are (often to their own surprise) finding much sense in Corbyn's opposition.
This may come as a surprise to the keyboard warriors on here who believe everything that The Mail tells them - perhaps they should get out a bit more and talk to some real people ...
It wasn't a matter of saving Corbyn.
It was a matter of whether the Blairites could self inflict enough damage on Labour, to discredit their leader. (A leader who received a huge mandate less than a year ago). They failed miserably.
Everyone expected a dismal result for Labour because the 2012 result was seen as a bit of a freakily high result for Labour. However, more than hung on, or done enough, They did beyond everyones, including their own, expectations.
They also won several Mayor elections, two by-elections, the most Welsh Assembly seats and gained several Police Commissioners.
So Corbyn did more than enough.
However, a four year Labour civil war up to the 2020 General Election will be deeply damaging. Corbyn needs to assert his authority or go.
It was a matter of whether the Blairites could self inflict enough damage on Labour, to discredit their leader. (A leader who received a huge mandate less than a year ago). They failed miserably.
Everyone expected a dismal result for Labour because the 2012 result was seen as a bit of a freakily high result for Labour. However, more than hung on, or done enough, They did beyond everyones, including their own, expectations.
They also won several Mayor elections, two by-elections, the most Welsh Assembly seats and gained several Police Commissioners.
So Corbyn did more than enough.
However, a four year Labour civil war up to the 2020 General Election will be deeply damaging. Corbyn needs to assert his authority or go.
The Blairites lost Labour 2 elections, 2010, and 2015. The membership want a change from them, so voted overwhelmingly for Corbyn. The Blairites own man, Andy Burnham was a very distant second.
But that is now a big problem for them. The MPs that did get elected were mostly Crony Blair picked and parachuted into safe areas. The result is that the Parliamentary MPs do not represent the party members and the leadership, they are a law unto themselves, as witness by their disloyalty during this election cycle.
But that is now a big problem for them. The MPs that did get elected were mostly Crony Blair picked and parachuted into safe areas. The result is that the Parliamentary MPs do not represent the party members and the leadership, they are a law unto themselves, as witness by their disloyalty during this election cycle.
The only area in which Labour did especially badly on Thursday was Scotland and that was a certainty, given two grotesque errors.
These were:
(a) their treatment of the Scottish element of the party - vital for their success in UK terms - as little more than a "branch-office" and
(b) their disastrous appearances in Scotland alongside the Tories "on-stage" immediately prior to the Independence referendum in 2014.
It's not so much that Jezza needs 'saving' as that his enemies need to 'put up or shut up'.
These were:
(a) their treatment of the Scottish element of the party - vital for their success in UK terms - as little more than a "branch-office" and
(b) their disastrous appearances in Scotland alongside the Tories "on-stage" immediately prior to the Independence referendum in 2014.
It's not so much that Jezza needs 'saving' as that his enemies need to 'put up or shut up'.
QM - an interesting take on why the SNP slipped back a good few notches and the Conservatives did well in Scotland :
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Well, Labour held on to more Counties and Councillors in England than did the Tories, held more seats in the Wales Assembly, managed to come first in the London Mayor battle, after 8 years of Tory rule, and managed to win both by-elections.
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So... for someone supposedly so unpopular as Jeremy Corbyn, that is pretty good.
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So... for someone supposedly so unpopular as Jeremy Corbyn, that is pretty good.
SD, it may well be that the SNP will have to take a leaf out of the Tories' policy-book as regards handling the 'Named Person' concept...that is, do a u-turn on it! If Cameron's crew can say, "We'll academise every school!" one week and "Oh no, we won't!" the next, Ms Sturgeon could - and probably should - do the same with this idea. Cheers
//QM - an interesting take on why the SNP slipped back a good few notches and the Conservatives did well in Scotland//
The SNP actually increased their % of the constituency vote winning even more constituencies, making it (because of the way the list vote is counted) very difficult to win list seats for them. So a lot of SNP supporters voted greens in the list vote as they are the next most popular Independence backing Party.
the SNP still got more seats than the conservatives, labour, and the libdems put together
The SNP actually increased their % of the constituency vote winning even more constituencies, making it (because of the way the list vote is counted) very difficult to win list seats for them. So a lot of SNP supporters voted greens in the list vote as they are the next most popular Independence backing Party.
the SNP still got more seats than the conservatives, labour, and the libdems put together
I cannot understand how Labour can still claim they represent the working classes when they are mimicking the Tories ( especially the Etonite Tories ) & declaring their affiliation to the eussr when every working class person I speak to says they will vote Brexit in the forthcoming Referendum. It would appear to me that the Labour party is completely out of touch.
WR,
As with the over all voters, working class voters are evenly split on whether to stay or leave.
Where there is a difference of opinion is in age groups. Younger people are overwhelmingly in the Stay camp, while older voters are for leaving.
So perhaps your observation that working class people want out is because your sample is not representative, and does not include younger working class voters.
Peple at the extremes of the political spectrum, the far right and the far left are both definitely outers. In the middle ground, in or out are about tied. Many Labour voters want out, many Tory voters want In, so it not party specific.
As with the over all voters, working class voters are evenly split on whether to stay or leave.
Where there is a difference of opinion is in age groups. Younger people are overwhelmingly in the Stay camp, while older voters are for leaving.
So perhaps your observation that working class people want out is because your sample is not representative, and does not include younger working class voters.
Peple at the extremes of the political spectrum, the far right and the far left are both definitely outers. In the middle ground, in or out are about tied. Many Labour voters want out, many Tory voters want In, so it not party specific.
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