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Selfish Cheapskate Parenting Now Legal.........
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In order to get a cheaper holiday it's ok to degrade your child's education. Wonderful. Brainless parents win again. When will our dopey judges move to this planet?
In order to get a cheaper holiday it's ok to degrade your child's education. Wonderful. Brainless parents win again. When will our dopey judges move to this planet?
Answers
Oh dear! A topic (almost) as dear to my heart as the wretched EU! “When will our dopey judges move to this planet?” Alas it’s not the fault of dopey judges (even dopey New Judges!). It’s down to sloppy legislation. The 1996 Education Act simply says that parents must ensure that their children attend school “regularly
17:34 Fri 13th May 2016
@jim360
//and in particular the remaining attendance record.//
But those with the worst sickness record are, on average, from the most under-priviledged areas or (once upon a time) those living in proximity to polluting heavy industry.
Those are the kind if people who actually *need* a holiday.
The rest of us are just lording it: because we can.
For humour purposes, I could just say that I never had holidays abroad, as a child and I'm da**ed if any other kids should have them now, in term-time or not. Call me a spoilsport, go on.
//and in particular the remaining attendance record.//
But those with the worst sickness record are, on average, from the most under-priviledged areas or (once upon a time) those living in proximity to polluting heavy industry.
Those are the kind if people who actually *need* a holiday.
The rest of us are just lording it: because we can.
For humour purposes, I could just say that I never had holidays abroad, as a child and I'm da**ed if any other kids should have them now, in term-time or not. Call me a spoilsport, go on.
@Zacs
Hee hee!
@jim
//No need to side-step on the "how to afford lawyyers?" issue, Hypo -- their legal fees were crowdfunded. //
Oh dear. What a giveaway.
Not an exceptional case. A lot of interested parties, wanting to benefit from the case. This is, in effect, a "class action".
"Boom! Boom!"
(non-suspicious 70s celeb, Basil Brush)
Hee hee!
@jim
//No need to side-step on the "how to afford lawyyers?" issue, Hypo -- their legal fees were crowdfunded. //
Oh dear. What a giveaway.
Not an exceptional case. A lot of interested parties, wanting to benefit from the case. This is, in effect, a "class action".
"Boom! Boom!"
(non-suspicious 70s celeb, Basil Brush)
I wouldn't want to play into your hands, hypo :P
The way in which the ruling may be interpreted does throw up some potential unfortunate anomalies, for sure. My brother joined us on the family holidays (obviously), but, without going into details, his own attendance was poorer than mine (not his fault). So a strict interpretation of the new regulations in light of this ruling might well lead to my parents getting fined for taking him out of school for a holiday but not me...
Seems to me that this implies that the rules will have to be rewritten entirely in light of this.
The way in which the ruling may be interpreted does throw up some potential unfortunate anomalies, for sure. My brother joined us on the family holidays (obviously), but, without going into details, his own attendance was poorer than mine (not his fault). So a strict interpretation of the new regulations in light of this ruling might well lead to my parents getting fined for taking him out of school for a holiday but not me...
Seems to me that this implies that the rules will have to be rewritten entirely in light of this.
> I can't say it did my education much harm
What about the education of the other 29 children in the class?
> If travel agencies stopped bumping up prices in school holidays perhaps parents would wait until then to go on holiday.
It's simple supply and demand. If more parents took their kids on holiday in term time, if in fact there were no "school holidays", then prices would be more even through the year. This ruling could actually result in that.
> Mine had holidays in term time if it suited us best
Oh well, whatever suits you best! Don't worry about anybody else. Presumably you are not a teacher and would object to your children's teacher taking holidays during term time for the benefit of their children.
> for some, it was essential if they wanted to have any holiday at all, and not just selfish
I guess you mean "poor people" Jim? And now we have a situation where, in deprived areas where education is already challenging enough, teachers somehow have to cope with all the children in a class (except their own, of course) taking random weeks off throughout the year ... and still provide a good enough education to pull those children from deprived areas up by their bootlaces.
> 90% attendance is good
That's half a day off a week!
What about the education of the other 29 children in the class?
> If travel agencies stopped bumping up prices in school holidays perhaps parents would wait until then to go on holiday.
It's simple supply and demand. If more parents took their kids on holiday in term time, if in fact there were no "school holidays", then prices would be more even through the year. This ruling could actually result in that.
> Mine had holidays in term time if it suited us best
Oh well, whatever suits you best! Don't worry about anybody else. Presumably you are not a teacher and would object to your children's teacher taking holidays during term time for the benefit of their children.
> for some, it was essential if they wanted to have any holiday at all, and not just selfish
I guess you mean "poor people" Jim? And now we have a situation where, in deprived areas where education is already challenging enough, teachers somehow have to cope with all the children in a class (except their own, of course) taking random weeks off throughout the year ... and still provide a good enough education to pull those children from deprived areas up by their bootlaces.
> 90% attendance is good
That's half a day off a week!
I reckon the other 29 children might have benefitted from the break... not really sure why they would have been that disrupted at all really. Maybe I'm missing something.
As I've pointed out anyway, ellipsis, this is hardly new. The regulations being challenged date back less than three years. Presumably, teachers coped. I suspect they might have found that easier to cope with still if what they actually were meant to teach didn't keep getting radically altered every few years because of government changes or some other dubious initiative that is frankly even more disruptive.
I don't particularly mean "poor" people, although I suppose yes -- them, and anyone else who is not really in a position to afford holidaying at another time.
As I've pointed out anyway, ellipsis, this is hardly new. The regulations being challenged date back less than three years. Presumably, teachers coped. I suspect they might have found that easier to cope with still if what they actually were meant to teach didn't keep getting radically altered every few years because of government changes or some other dubious initiative that is frankly even more disruptive.
I don't particularly mean "poor" people, although I suppose yes -- them, and anyone else who is not really in a position to afford holidaying at another time.
See what I mean? Penalising people for their poor health.
No special cases, or else *everyone* will have some form of special pleading to get their case through.
Our legal system is chock-a-block as things stand. Someone, somewhere is having "justice delayed" because of all the flim-flam fallout from non-serious crime.
Find a way to stop there being reams of cases like this. (Unless you are in the legal profession, of course, in which case, argue for more complex legislation).
I must return to my lair. Later, dudes & dudettes.
No special cases, or else *everyone* will have some form of special pleading to get their case through.
Our legal system is chock-a-block as things stand. Someone, somewhere is having "justice delayed" because of all the flim-flam fallout from non-serious crime.
Find a way to stop there being reams of cases like this. (Unless you are in the legal profession, of course, in which case, argue for more complex legislation).
I must return to my lair. Later, dudes & dudettes.
Well it was that or no holiday, Ellipses.....and it certainly harmed nobody else....why would it?
I did teach......in a deprived area.... I did once have one week off in term time for a holiday that couldn't be changed and I would have no objection at all if one of my children's teachers had taken a holiday during term time....why on earth would I?
I did teach......in a deprived area.... I did once have one week off in term time for a holiday that couldn't be changed and I would have no objection at all if one of my children's teachers had taken a holiday during term time....why on earth would I?
I'm not saying that such penalising would happen. But all the same the only reasonable way out of this is to scrap or revise the 2013 regulations in light of this ruling. That may mean imposing more strignent rules still, or relaxing them.
But the foundation of the regulations the government tried to bring in is wrong, or far from universal. Holidays during school time can be disruptive, but aren't necessarily so, and so outright bans make no sense.
But the foundation of the regulations the government tried to bring in is wrong, or far from universal. Holidays during school time can be disruptive, but aren't necessarily so, and so outright bans make no sense.
> I reckon the other 29 children might have benefitted from the break... not really sure why they would have been that disrupted at all really. Maybe I'm missing something.
On your return ... would the teacher have to spend any time at all on you? Telling you the work that had been set, collecting any homework required from you and marking it individually, giving you individual coaching if you did not understand something? (imagine you were not a genius) All that would be to the detriment of the other 29 children and/or the teacher themselves, whose combined time could have been spent doing other stuff.
Bad enough when one or two do it ... but when many do it, it's worse. And the ones who suffer unfairly are the teachers and the children who don't do it.
On your return ... would the teacher have to spend any time at all on you? Telling you the work that had been set, collecting any homework required from you and marking it individually, giving you individual coaching if you did not understand something? (imagine you were not a genius) All that would be to the detriment of the other 29 children and/or the teacher themselves, whose combined time could have been spent doing other stuff.
Bad enough when one or two do it ... but when many do it, it's worse. And the ones who suffer unfairly are the teachers and the children who don't do it.
On the other hand, ellipsis, they had one week with about 4% more attention on average than usual, so it might balance out. I can't really answer the rest; I don't think it ever took me long to catch up, but it was a while ago now.
It's too much to say that holidays during term are *never* disruptive, but the level of disruption caused can be massively exaggerated. It seems to me that the blanket rule these regulations tried, and failed, to impose, is wrong because of that.
It's too much to say that holidays during term are *never* disruptive, but the level of disruption caused can be massively exaggerated. It seems to me that the blanket rule these regulations tried, and failed, to impose, is wrong because of that.
> I did teach......in a deprived area.... I did once have one week off in term time for a holiday that couldn't be changed and I would have no objection at all if one of my children's teachers had taken a holiday during term time....why on earth would I?
Er ... because your children's education would suffer? A school typically has about 100 staff so if all of those decided to take two weeks off during term time, spread throughout the year ... hopefully I don't need to complete the sums to show the damage to the school and to the education of each child in it ...
Er ... because your children's education would suffer? A school typically has about 100 staff so if all of those decided to take two weeks off during term time, spread throughout the year ... hopefully I don't need to complete the sums to show the damage to the school and to the education of each child in it ...
One of the main reasons schools do not like children being taken on holiday during term time has nothing to do with their education.
It is all about school league tables, attendance is one of the main criteria that count towards the schools position in the league tables. A school that allows children to take time off for holidays risks dropping places in the league tables.If the school drops below a set point in the league it loses funding! So it is all about funding, though you will not get the school heads to admit it.
It is all about school league tables, attendance is one of the main criteria that count towards the schools position in the league tables. A school that allows children to take time off for holidays risks dropping places in the league tables.If the school drops below a set point in the league it loses funding! So it is all about funding, though you will not get the school heads to admit it.
You really aren't looking at this in a very sensible way, Ellipsis...staff aren't going to do that....but exceptions have to be accommodated.....for both staff and pupils.
And I really dislike.....Er.....at the start of a comment....
It became popular when I was teaching and it's something we discouraged the children from doing when speaking to us.
And I really dislike.....Er.....at the start of a comment....
It became popular when I was teaching and it's something we discouraged the children from doing when speaking to us.
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