Body & Soul1 min ago
Selfish Cheapskate Parenting Now Legal.........
183 Answers
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In order to get a cheaper holiday it's ok to degrade your child's education. Wonderful. Brainless parents win again. When will our dopey judges move to this planet?
In order to get a cheaper holiday it's ok to degrade your child's education. Wonderful. Brainless parents win again. When will our dopey judges move to this planet?
Answers
Oh dear! A topic (almost) as dear to my heart as the wretched EU! “When will our dopey judges move to this planet?” Alas it’s not the fault of dopey judges (even dopey New Judges!). It’s down to sloppy legislation. The 1996 Education Act simply says that parents must ensure that their children attend school “regularly
17:34 Fri 13th May 2016
Okay......change you to one....
I notice Wayne is missing from assembly.....I go to the cloakroom where he is hiding....
It's assembly, Wayne....what are you doing in here?
Errrr....it's the lav miss.....what d'you think I'm doing....says Wayne looking at me, mouth hanging, as if I'm daft......
I so hate that expression.
I notice Wayne is missing from assembly.....I go to the cloakroom where he is hiding....
It's assembly, Wayne....what are you doing in here?
Errrr....it's the lav miss.....what d'you think I'm doing....says Wayne looking at me, mouth hanging, as if I'm daft......
I so hate that expression.
Wayne was the type of child we sometimes wished would have long term time holidays....especially during OFSTED....Wayne was never absent.... :-(
True story......the wife of one of my colleagues had ovarian cancer....and not very long to live.
Her former boss paid for a wonderful cruise for them both......had to be taken quickly obviously....couldn't wait for the summer holidays....they had a wonderful time......we covered, with supply.....and no child suffered...
There must be exceptions.
I have met one or two poor teachers in my many years......but most were fantastic and would never put the children or colleagues in a pickle just for a holiday.
True story......the wife of one of my colleagues had ovarian cancer....and not very long to live.
Her former boss paid for a wonderful cruise for them both......had to be taken quickly obviously....couldn't wait for the summer holidays....they had a wonderful time......we covered, with supply.....and no child suffered...
There must be exceptions.
I have met one or two poor teachers in my many years......but most were fantastic and would never put the children or colleagues in a pickle just for a holiday.
Gness, there definitely must be exceptions. But today's ruling said that in a nutshell, as long as your kids have 90% attendance, you can take them out of school when you like. 10% non-attendance is about 4 weeks per school year ... this is not going to improve standards of education!
Despite me and my children all going through state education, I think this is the type of thing that would persuade me to try to put my grandchildren (if I ever have any) through private education, where both school and parents are committed enough to the education of children that they insist on no holidays in term time except in truly exceptional circumstances.
Despite me and my children all going through state education, I think this is the type of thing that would persuade me to try to put my grandchildren (if I ever have any) through private education, where both school and parents are committed enough to the education of children that they insist on no holidays in term time except in truly exceptional circumstances.
Gness....if you haven't discovered Gervase Phinn's books, set in the Yorkshire Dales, I suggest you check them out !....lots of Waynes !
https:/
https:/
Mikey....I think we discussed this before....or maybe not....but did I suggest you see him live if you can?
We always went from school when he was in the area....one of my favourite books of his is......A Wayne in a Manger......I swear he had inside information from our school when he wrote that!....☺
We always went from school when he was in the area....one of my favourite books of his is......A Wayne in a Manger......I swear he had inside information from our school when he wrote that!....☺
I seem to recall that we did indeed have this conversation gness !
I have now finished all the "Dales" series, and the "Little Village School" series and I now have to wait until October for the next one....
I have enjoyed them all, and just wish he would write some more. I have laughed out loud on more than one occasion !
I have now finished all the "Dales" series, and the "Little Village School" series and I now have to wait until October for the next one....
I have enjoyed them all, and just wish he would write some more. I have laughed out loud on more than one occasion !
Oh dear! A topic (almost) as dear to my heart as the wretched EU!
“When will our dopey judges move to this planet?”
Alas it’s not the fault of dopey judges (even dopey New Judges!). It’s down to sloppy legislation.
The 1996 Education Act simply says that parents must ensure that their children attend school “regularly”. Unfortunately, as with much legislation, the crucial word – “regularly” in this case - is not defined. The magistrates who initially ruled on Mr Platt’s case decided that they were entitled to take into account the wider picture of his children’s school attendance when deciding whether or not they had attended “regularly”. The Council decided to appeal their decision and it went to the High Court (as matters of law from the Magistrates’ Court often do). The High Court upheld the Magistrates’ decision.
Mr Platt’s children had an attendance rate (ignoring the holiday at the basis of the dispute) of around 95%. That, of course, is an average of one day off a month, or three days every term. There is clearly a need for greater definition by the law and the government has pledged to look at tightening the legislation.
My view is that taking children out of school for a holiday is an absolute no-no. When I was at school it was unheard of. It is all very well saying “it’s only a week (or two)” but resources must be spent enabling those children to catch up and if everybody takes their child out of school for a fortnight the result will be chaos.
A few remarks worth comment:
“That is a facetious remark TTT. Many parents struggle to afford a holiday without having to pay over the odds.”
Then they should not have had children. They don’t pay “over the odds” during school holiday time. They pay the going rate. It’s called supply and demand and it’s not just happened.
“Speaking as someone who had holidays in term time every year while I was at Primary school... I can't say it did my education much harm.”
Maybe not. Who would know? You may have had a much better education had you not taken time out, you’d never know. But the other pupils certainly suffered whilst Jim was being brought up to speed.
“…attendance is one of the main criteria that count towards the schools position in the league tables.”
And why do you think that is, Eddie? It’s because attending school is the first requirement towards getting a decent education. If the child does not attend he cannot be educated
Mr Platt (the defendant in this case) cited the fact that private schools have generally better results than state schools, despite having much shorter terms. Leaving aside the other factors (such as many state school pupils not receiving the same level of support from their parents as private pupils) he neglected to add that “unauthorised absences” in the private sector are virtually unheard of. Parents shelling out £4k plus a term know the value of the education they are paying for (as well as paying via their taxes for everybody else’s). This means that although the terms may be shorter, generally (bar illness, etc.) all the pupils are there all of the time with none of them absent for various weeks at a time for a week in Disneyland.
There is also the wider issue that many people – me included – prefer not to have the company of children when on holiday. We choose adult only accommodation (or our own villa) but this still does not guarantee child free surroundings. Holidaying during term time lessens the risk but now it seems it will no longer do so.
This ruling has made a nonsense of school attendance. Parents whose children have otherwise “regular” attendance will now be free to take their children out of school with impunity and the government needs to act urgently to tighten up the law.
“When will our dopey judges move to this planet?”
Alas it’s not the fault of dopey judges (even dopey New Judges!). It’s down to sloppy legislation.
The 1996 Education Act simply says that parents must ensure that their children attend school “regularly”. Unfortunately, as with much legislation, the crucial word – “regularly” in this case - is not defined. The magistrates who initially ruled on Mr Platt’s case decided that they were entitled to take into account the wider picture of his children’s school attendance when deciding whether or not they had attended “regularly”. The Council decided to appeal their decision and it went to the High Court (as matters of law from the Magistrates’ Court often do). The High Court upheld the Magistrates’ decision.
Mr Platt’s children had an attendance rate (ignoring the holiday at the basis of the dispute) of around 95%. That, of course, is an average of one day off a month, or three days every term. There is clearly a need for greater definition by the law and the government has pledged to look at tightening the legislation.
My view is that taking children out of school for a holiday is an absolute no-no. When I was at school it was unheard of. It is all very well saying “it’s only a week (or two)” but resources must be spent enabling those children to catch up and if everybody takes their child out of school for a fortnight the result will be chaos.
A few remarks worth comment:
“That is a facetious remark TTT. Many parents struggle to afford a holiday without having to pay over the odds.”
Then they should not have had children. They don’t pay “over the odds” during school holiday time. They pay the going rate. It’s called supply and demand and it’s not just happened.
“Speaking as someone who had holidays in term time every year while I was at Primary school... I can't say it did my education much harm.”
Maybe not. Who would know? You may have had a much better education had you not taken time out, you’d never know. But the other pupils certainly suffered whilst Jim was being brought up to speed.
“…attendance is one of the main criteria that count towards the schools position in the league tables.”
And why do you think that is, Eddie? It’s because attending school is the first requirement towards getting a decent education. If the child does not attend he cannot be educated
Mr Platt (the defendant in this case) cited the fact that private schools have generally better results than state schools, despite having much shorter terms. Leaving aside the other factors (such as many state school pupils not receiving the same level of support from their parents as private pupils) he neglected to add that “unauthorised absences” in the private sector are virtually unheard of. Parents shelling out £4k plus a term know the value of the education they are paying for (as well as paying via their taxes for everybody else’s). This means that although the terms may be shorter, generally (bar illness, etc.) all the pupils are there all of the time with none of them absent for various weeks at a time for a week in Disneyland.
There is also the wider issue that many people – me included – prefer not to have the company of children when on holiday. We choose adult only accommodation (or our own villa) but this still does not guarantee child free surroundings. Holidaying during term time lessens the risk but now it seems it will no longer do so.
This ruling has made a nonsense of school attendance. Parents whose children have otherwise “regular” attendance will now be free to take their children out of school with impunity and the government needs to act urgently to tighten up the law.
“…schools don't spend any time "catching pupils up". It's the pupil's responsibility to do that.”
Of course they do. Many subjects are progressive. To educate a pupil to a complete syllabus they must know Lesson 1 before they can progress to Lesson 2. To suggest it is the pupil’s responsibility to catch up is misleading. Assuming they did accept that responsibility (which is most unlikely, especially among the younger ones) what happens if they encounter difficulties? Who do they turn to? Their teacher, perhaps? He must then spend time which should be devoted to the entire class helping the holidaymaker. OK for one pupil, not too much aggravation for two or three. But then move on to four, six, ten, all taking holidays at different times ???
Of course they do. Many subjects are progressive. To educate a pupil to a complete syllabus they must know Lesson 1 before they can progress to Lesson 2. To suggest it is the pupil’s responsibility to catch up is misleading. Assuming they did accept that responsibility (which is most unlikely, especially among the younger ones) what happens if they encounter difficulties? Who do they turn to? Their teacher, perhaps? He must then spend time which should be devoted to the entire class helping the holidaymaker. OK for one pupil, not too much aggravation for two or three. But then move on to four, six, ten, all taking holidays at different times ???
Strange isn't it......I could take my child away for the last week of term for a really exciting, interesting and memorable holiday....when he/she should be at school playing games and making too much noise....and be fined, penalised or branded a cheapskate.....(you must get over that attitude, TTT).....and folk on here would get in a two and six about it.....
Would be better getting in a two and six about all the new initiatives and flaming OFSTED inspections that do the real damage to teachers and the education of our children.....x
Would be better getting in a two and six about all the new initiatives and flaming OFSTED inspections that do the real damage to teachers and the education of our children.....x
My son in law had the chance to take my Granddaughter to China on a wondrous trip last year - he and my daughter went into school and explained she would miss 2 days school at either end of the holiday.
They offered an idea that whilst away she did a pictorial diary and a storyboard and gave a talk on her experiences on her return.
It all worked beautifully.
They offered an idea that whilst away she did a pictorial diary and a storyboard and gave a talk on her experiences on her return.
It all worked beautifully.
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