How it Works1 min ago
How Come The 'brexiters' Have Not Mentioned This?
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Theresa May had it much tougher than she had imagined at the G20.
Theresa May had it much tougher than she had imagined at the G20.
Answers
As others have said, there was a lot ‘
17:20 Tue 06th Sep 2016
It wasn't a promise, it wasn't even stated.
Two things were on the bus a) that we were down to pay £350M to the EU (barring any temporary rebate) and b) pointed out we could use money saved to increase spending on the NHS.
£350M to the NHS was always just remainers' fantasy for mudslinging purposes and hoping to fool the undecided.
Two things were on the bus a) that we were down to pay £350M to the EU (barring any temporary rebate) and b) pointed out we could use money saved to increase spending on the NHS.
£350M to the NHS was always just remainers' fantasy for mudslinging purposes and hoping to fool the undecided.
How come the Bremoaners didn't mention this?
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As others have said, there was a lot ‘promised’ by both sides, who weren’t in a position to promise anything. I suspect that when Brexit happens some of those who voted to leave will feel that they were promised more than are actually going to get. Some who are claiming to know what Brexit should mean seem to be setting themselves up for disappointment already.
No one has commented on my post in another 'brexit' thread of the situation regarding scientific, and especially medical, research in the UK.
I am near Cambridge where a huge number of people work in one or other of the Science Parks & Research Centers , well over 10,000 people! With many more planned (pre Brexit)
These centers depend on being able to send/ bring in people from to all over Europe at no notice and with no more problem than getting a bus to the shops.
They also depend on research funding from the EU to the tune of £Billions a year. The UK gets far more research funding from the EU than any other nation does. The people who work in these places are really uncertain what will happen once we leave the EU. They do not just need to know what will happen this year or even in 5 years time. These research projects take 25 years and more. They need absolute assurance that the funding will continue or will be replaced by other sources. Yes the government has promised to match the funding, but can they really do it? Remember we are talking £ Multi Billions a year. The profits can also be huge but new research needs massive funding. They never ever imagined that we could leave the EU and the it's certainty of future funding.
Any ideas.
New Judge, despite our differences of opinion you are normally pretty straight talking and sensible do you have any comments? I am seriously concerned as are the many people I know who work in these places.
I am near Cambridge where a huge number of people work in one or other of the Science Parks & Research Centers , well over 10,000 people! With many more planned (pre Brexit)
These centers depend on being able to send/ bring in people from to all over Europe at no notice and with no more problem than getting a bus to the shops.
They also depend on research funding from the EU to the tune of £Billions a year. The UK gets far more research funding from the EU than any other nation does. The people who work in these places are really uncertain what will happen once we leave the EU. They do not just need to know what will happen this year or even in 5 years time. These research projects take 25 years and more. They need absolute assurance that the funding will continue or will be replaced by other sources. Yes the government has promised to match the funding, but can they really do it? Remember we are talking £ Multi Billions a year. The profits can also be huge but new research needs massive funding. They never ever imagined that we could leave the EU and the it's certainty of future funding.
Any ideas.
New Judge, despite our differences of opinion you are normally pretty straight talking and sensible do you have any comments? I am seriously concerned as are the many people I know who work in these places.
//Eddie your post explains all. You are no doubt aware that the Government has already pledged to maintain research funding at the same levels as they are currently. Why do you think the EUSSR was so keen to provide funding? Could it be that they full access to the research done in the UK, and were keen to put it to their own nefarious use? The funding of which you speak will come out of the money that the EUSSR took from us..........then gave back(some of it) to us in errr funding. They were getting the results of British research for diddly squat. It is obvious that your whole stance regarding Brexit took only into account your own selfish and personal circumstances and had no regard for the common good as a whole of rest of the UK or indeed future generations of the UK. Now if you could get he French to sort out the Calais problem I am sure that goods and people will be able to move quite freely. Brexit does not prevent the movement of either. We were never in the Schengen Zone, you know that, but are once again blowing smoke. //
13:47 Mon 05th Sep 2016
That was an answer to Eddie's assertion that funding would dry up.
13:47 Mon 05th Sep 2016
That was an answer to Eddie's assertion that funding would dry up.
We have the largest proportion of F5 (direct EU) funding, this is for ALL research not just medical .
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Germany comes before us but this is all research, not just medical research which is what Cambridge is mainly about. Medical research only, is an even higher % in favour of the UK.
The % of the funds which come to the UK direct from the EU is higher than any other EU country.
Will the government be able to match the £8.8 billion a year and keep it up for the 25 or so years that a typical research project takes from instigation to market? I really hope it can but I doubt it .
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Germany comes before us but this is all research, not just medical research which is what Cambridge is mainly about. Medical research only, is an even higher % in favour of the UK.
The % of the funds which come to the UK direct from the EU is higher than any other EU country.
Will the government be able to match the £8.8 billion a year and keep it up for the 25 or so years that a typical research project takes from instigation to market? I really hope it can but I doubt it .
Yes I do understand your concerns Eddie.
“The UK gets far more research funding from the EU than any other nation does.”
And it also donates to the EU more than almost any other nation does. Post-Brexit the UK can decide what it spends those contributions on. At present it cannot. If it chooses to spend them on research or the NHS or a day at the races it will be our choice, not somebody else’s. THAT’s the point.
You mention long term certainty. Nobody can be sure what conditions will prevail in five or ten years time, let alone 25. And that holds whether we are in or out of the EU. There is no certainty that the EU will continue to fund what it does at present forevermore. It faces more challenges than the UK alone does, with problems faced by 27 (and rising) other nations, all with their own very different problems. But the UK will only have to consider its own requirements.
I also understand your concerns about staffing. I have every confidence that the UK will not lose key staff from other EU countries. They will want to remain here, we want them, nothing will prevent that.
People of the UK do not dislike Europe. They dislike the EU. They do not like paying someone a tenner and getting a fiver back provided they spend it as directed. The EU has enormous problems most of which are of its own making and none of which it shows any signs of being able to solve. Its policies have inflicted enormous hardship across the continent, especially the southern nations. The UK could not continue its membership without that damage and hardship extending to here. Leaving will be fraught with difficulties. But they will be overcome and it won’t be the disaster that some expect. There is nothing the UK can do within the EU that it cannot do outside. But there is an awful lot we cannot do whilst we remain members.
“The UK gets far more research funding from the EU than any other nation does.”
And it also donates to the EU more than almost any other nation does. Post-Brexit the UK can decide what it spends those contributions on. At present it cannot. If it chooses to spend them on research or the NHS or a day at the races it will be our choice, not somebody else’s. THAT’s the point.
You mention long term certainty. Nobody can be sure what conditions will prevail in five or ten years time, let alone 25. And that holds whether we are in or out of the EU. There is no certainty that the EU will continue to fund what it does at present forevermore. It faces more challenges than the UK alone does, with problems faced by 27 (and rising) other nations, all with their own very different problems. But the UK will only have to consider its own requirements.
I also understand your concerns about staffing. I have every confidence that the UK will not lose key staff from other EU countries. They will want to remain here, we want them, nothing will prevent that.
People of the UK do not dislike Europe. They dislike the EU. They do not like paying someone a tenner and getting a fiver back provided they spend it as directed. The EU has enormous problems most of which are of its own making and none of which it shows any signs of being able to solve. Its policies have inflicted enormous hardship across the continent, especially the southern nations. The UK could not continue its membership without that damage and hardship extending to here. Leaving will be fraught with difficulties. But they will be overcome and it won’t be the disaster that some expect. There is nothing the UK can do within the EU that it cannot do outside. But there is an awful lot we cannot do whilst we remain members.
Europe's biggest biomedical lab opens -- in London, and they're saying it will attract the best scientific brains from around the world.
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It's not all doom and gloom remainders but I'm sure you know that.
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It's not all doom and gloom remainders but I'm sure you know that.
I opted not to post to your other thread Eddie because science funding was one of the scaremongering claims prior to the vote and I felt no need to return to the issue again. No government is going to starve science of a reasonable budget. Since we have the aforementioned £350M saving it's common sense that some will get earmarked for science, as all existing EU subsidies would be so considered. Also being outside the EU should have no effect on being able to move in Europe unless other EU governments try to be awkward, and that seems unlikely. That said the EU management for science do seem to be playing up in this period of post referendum/pre exit using excuses to make life awkward but there's nothing responsible folk can do to force them to act sensibly.
"If they trigger article 50 they will have no choice. It means two years of no negotations and no continuing any research. "
Not "if", Marshy, "when".
But leaving that debate aside, let's think it through. A50 is triggered. We continue our contributions to the EU throughout the negotiations; the EU continues to dribble back whatever money it thinks we deserve (and if it does not, the answer is simple - our contributions cease). How does this amout to "two years of no negotiations and no research"?
Is the UK only capable of scientific research as part of the EU? If so, how do other nations who carry out research but are not EU members get on? Do you think that the institutions our scientists collaborate with in Europe will suddenly "Sorry chums. Can't work with you any more because you're not in the EU". I think not. Do you think that once A50 is triggered that the scientific and medical research that companies in the UK are involved in (and from which they stand to make a tidy penny) will suddenly say "Oh well, the game's up! We'll have to turn it in now that the UK is no longer an EU member. Again, I think not.
Rather like some people seem to believe only the government can facilitate some services you seem to think that only the EU can fund research. I don't normally dismiss statements made on AB as "utter tosh" but this time I might make an exception.
Not "if", Marshy, "when".
But leaving that debate aside, let's think it through. A50 is triggered. We continue our contributions to the EU throughout the negotiations; the EU continues to dribble back whatever money it thinks we deserve (and if it does not, the answer is simple - our contributions cease). How does this amout to "two years of no negotiations and no research"?
Is the UK only capable of scientific research as part of the EU? If so, how do other nations who carry out research but are not EU members get on? Do you think that the institutions our scientists collaborate with in Europe will suddenly "Sorry chums. Can't work with you any more because you're not in the EU". I think not. Do you think that once A50 is triggered that the scientific and medical research that companies in the UK are involved in (and from which they stand to make a tidy penny) will suddenly say "Oh well, the game's up! We'll have to turn it in now that the UK is no longer an EU member. Again, I think not.
Rather like some people seem to believe only the government can facilitate some services you seem to think that only the EU can fund research. I don't normally dismiss statements made on AB as "utter tosh" but this time I might make an exception.
New Judge I understand your view but medical research in the UK benefits from both UK funding and EU funding, the EU contribution being substantially more than the UK's own input.
Once we are out out of the EU there will need to be a very large increase in our own UK funding just to stay where we are now.
I and all of those I know working in the science parks and research centers are very far from sure that funding will continue at the same level.
The costs are huge and the time scale long but the potential rewards are substantial as well.
Once we are out out of the EU there will need to be a very large increase in our own UK funding just to stay where we are now.
I and all of those I know working in the science parks and research centers are very far from sure that funding will continue at the same level.
The costs are huge and the time scale long but the potential rewards are substantial as well.
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