Ashers Bakery Lose Same-Sex Cake Appeal

[Islay]

Common sense at last, they run a business if you bake a cake in Liverpool colours does not mean that you support Liverpool!

They were in the wrong and its about time the accepted it.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/live-updates-ashers-bakery-lose-samesex-cake-appeal-35154967.html

[Islay]

It may be a cake for you Murray but then perhaps you have never been discriminated against!!

You suspect that's what happened Tora - well that's not what happened read the story.

I can think of several scenarios where you lot would have been on the side of the individual and not the bakers!! funny that!

[andy-hughes]

Naomi - //And we’ve come full circle. The law doesn’t allow them to speak the truth. //

I would argue that it's not 'the truth' - it is 'their truth' - they have made a conscious decision to discriminate, and in doing so they have broken the law.

[Barmaid]

If they refused to do a cake celebrating "Black people awareness week" for a black organiser on the basis that they do not think black people have the same rights as white people, would that be OK?

If they refused to do a cake celebrating the ParaOlympics for a disabled person on the basis that they do not agree with disabled people doing sport, would that be OK?

[murraymints]

Islay..don't be so rude !! Our lot ??? is that not YOU being discriminatory ? and what do you know about me anyway ? I am offended and hurt by your remark

[andy-hughes]

Barmaid - //If they refused to do a cake celebrating "Black people awareness week" for a black organiser on the basis that they do not think black people have the same rights as white people, would that be OK?

If they refused to do a cake celebrating the ParaOlympics for a disabled person on the basis that they do not agree with disabled people doing sport, would that be OK? //

This is the crux of the issue.

If they refused for those reasons - no problem.

If they gave those reasons for their refusal - problem.

[murraymints]

Barmaid rooools ok ??? xx

[naomi24]

Barmaid, this is not simply a matter of discrimination on a whim. The whole point here is that 'faith' is involved - and the principles that 'faith' demands cannot be compromised.

[hereIam]

Just because it's the law doesn't make it 'right'. Nobody is allowed a belief these days if it is non pc and a lot of people don't agree with same sex marriage. I wonder what they'll make us agree with next whether we want to or not !!

[murraymints]

and..a cake is a cake for a' that !! get serious peeps.... this life is too short

[Islay]

Oh I am sorry that you feel that I have been rude and hurtful to you Murray one can never really allow for others feelings can they!

[murraymints]

hereiam ..will you marry me ? xx

[RandyMarsh]

Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.

But don't bake no cake for no gay boys.

[andy-hughes]

hereIam - //Just because it's the law doesn't make it 'right'. Nobody is allowed a belief these days if it is non pc and a lot of people don't agree with same sex marriage. I wonder what they'll make us agree with next whether we want to or not !! //

You are pointing out the difficulty in resolving conscience and a sense of morality with obeying the law of the land.

The law cannot change the way people think - but it can change the way people behave, based on what they think.

[EcclesCake]

Why are you being so objectionable Murraymints?

[Barmaid]

Naomi - I perfectly understand the point, unfortunately for the Ashers, the law trumps faith everytime in cases like this. And so it should.

HereIam - no one is making anyone believe anything. All the law seeks to do is ensure that people are not treated differently because of their race, sex, disability, sexuality etc. The law does not say that the Ashers must accept and believe in same sex marriages - the law simply says that they must not treat people differently for those reasons.

The irony in Islay's opening post is that they could have refused to make a cake in Liverpool's colours being die hard Everton supporters since supporting Liverpool is not a disability ;)

[Islay]

lol thanks barmaid

[murraymints]

eccles just can't believe that something so trivial in the big picture matters !

[naomi24]

Barmaid, //unfortunately for the Ashers, the law trumps faith everytime in cases like this. And so it should.//

Not that I’m a proponent of religion by any stretch of the imagination but I am a stickler for principle and I don’t agree that the law should require people to abandon their principles to appease and accommodate others.

I'm off to read my book now - the heroine has far more on her plate than cake!

[andy-hughes]

murraymints - //eccles just can't believe that something so trivial in the big picture matters ! //

I am happy to give you the benefit of the doubt here, and assume that you understand that the reason for the argument - and the court case - is nothing at all to do with a cake, and everything to do with the morality and legality of prejudicial behaviour in a free society -

and ask why you think discrimination - which is against the law - can be seen in any way as trivial?

[Islay]

//but I am a stickler for principle and I don’t agree that the law should require people to abandon their principles to appease and accommodate others. //

Does anyone else see the irony of this argument?