Slight Update To Earlier Brexit Comment.

[-Talbot-]

I would have thought Brexit was more about astute negotiations and compromises rather than cunning plans.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/15/angela-merkel-suggests-she-is-willing-to-compromise-on-free-move/

[naomi24]

//German Chancellor suggested that the European Union needs to “discuss further” the rules around freedom of movement.//

Can't help thinking that recent experiences in her own country might be causing her to think again.

[jourdain2]

Oh, golly gosh! Quelle surprise! 'Stick to one's guns' is the order of the day. :)

[cassa333]

As long as we don't have to pay as much into the EU just to be in the single market. That was the suggestion during the referendum.

I think it was why Be out of the club but in the single market while paying the same as before but with no say.



I am all for staying in the single market if it is beneficial but not at any cost.

[cassa333]

Sorry got waylaid by something else.

I think there will be give and take on both sides. Otherwise it isn't a negotiation, it will be a nothing meeting that achieves nothing.

Cunning plans are wonderful if you stick to them but good negotiation will be what matters.

[Zacs-Master]

Further complexities eh? Whodathoughtit?

[Old_Geezer]

Compromise ?
One either has free movement imposed on one, or one doesn't.

Still, if true, it is a good sign that the other side of the table realise that, continually insisting that a prime reason for us leaving must remain in any future trade agreement, thus ruining the possibility of any such agreement, is not something worth continuing with simply to save politicians' faces.

[New Judge]

And once again (hopefully for the final time) the negotiations are not about our leaving. They are about our relationship with what remains of the EU after we have left. Our leaving is not conditional on the outcome of these negotiations and if they were not successful, not concluded because of prevarication by our EU partners or even if they were not to take place at all, we would still leave.

[Old_Geezer]

Zacs, you seem to have inadvertently typed "complexities" but don't worry, we realise you meant, of course, "simplifications".

[Zacs-Master]

Complexities I wrote and complexities I meant. Cassa's posts point to further possible complexities.

[cassa333]

There will be complexities and simplifications. That is what I think is about negotiation. I don't think we will get everything we want and I don't think the EU will make us take whatever they are or are not prepared to give.

As has been said numerous times. We leaving has nothing to do with our future relationship with the EU. Both sides should make the most of it. Not put barriers in the way.

[Gromit]

As usual New Judge is right.
We can trigger A50 tomorrow. There is absolutely nothing to stop us. The negotiations about our future relations with the EU after we have left, can start the day after tomorrow.

[Zacs-Master]

Cassa, 'We leaving has nothing to do with our future relationship with the EU'

I think you need to do a little research if that's what you believe, because quite the reverse is true.

Gromit, I'm not sure where you (or NJ) get the idea that we can just trigger article 50 after the recent ruling that parliament has to vote on it. The latest opinion of some is that it's even more complex than that:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/15/supreme-court-judges-views-on-article-50-legislation-anger-leave-campaigners

Both of your comments are quite worrying if they display your understanding of the EU divorce process.

[cassa333]

Symantecs of not expressing myself better rather than not knowing Zacs.

Leaving has nothing to do with leaving in as much as we can leave whatever happens.

I usually type reems of stuff to say one thing. Obviously trying to squish it down doesn't work for me lol as it I should too literal for some people.

We could trigger a50 tomorrow. All it would need would be for parliament to sort their backsides out.

[youngmafbog]

No half as worrying as liberal remonaer judges comments.

Well civil unrest here we come I suppose.

If this has come from Angie then it would rather suggest talks are going on, she would not have just come out and said it. I also would be surprised if they were not given the EU wanting divorce asap.

[ToraToraTora]

who's gives a flying *&^%, what anyone in the EU thinks? out, ASAP, I don't care about anything else.

[Peter Pedant]

// Can't help thinking that recent experiences in her own country might be causing her to think again.//

as an educated woman Nigh you will know that J M Keynes said

"when the facts change, I change my mind, what do you do ? "

but I am not suggesting he said it to you

[naomi24]

Peter Pedant, I suppose I should find your obvious interest in my posts quite endearing.

[Peter Pedant]

.// No half as worrying as liberal remonaer judges comments.//
jesus what is wrong wid autocomplete these days ?

later ,
// Beginning the process would not change the law.”// Leddy Hale
Clear or what ?

so New Judge is not right - he has forgotten the Law side ( again ) and doubtless not for the last time

[ludwig]

These things do take time. I've been trying to leave my golf club for 5 years but I want to make sure I get the best deal.

I'm holding out for being able to use all the facilities without paying the subscription or following any of the rules.

[New Judge]

“Gromit, I'm not sure where you (or NJ) get the idea that we can just trigger article 50 after the recent ruling that parliament has to vote on it. “

“Both of your comments are quite worrying if they display your understanding of the EU divorce process.”

Gromit (I think) and I (certainly) were talking of the relationship between leaving and negotiating our future relationship, not our own domestic constitutional problems which currently prevent us invoking A50. When they are overcome we can Trigger A50 whenever we like and that, and our subsequent leaving, is not dependent on the outcome of the negotiations.

In fact the EU has (quite properly) said that it will not enter into “divorce” proceedings until A50 has been triggered. This turns any debate among politicians which may display our “red lines” for negotiation the same as showing your hand at poker.

“I'm holding out for being able to use all the facilities without paying the subscription or following any of the rules.”

Good luck with that, Ludwig. That’s not what I’m expecting or even hoping for. There is too much interdependency voiced about the negotiations. The referendum question was “Do you want to Remain or Leave the EU”. There was nothing about “providing we can get a good deal”. I know I cannot speak for all “Leave” voters but I answered that question as it was put. I voted to leave lock, stock and barrel. I do not expect the UK to retain any advantages that might be evident from EU membership unless it is mutually agreed. But I do not want, as part of any agreement, the UK to be constrained by the EU or any of its institutions in any way whatsoever. I do not want any deal concluded that makes the UK subject to any EU rules, regulations or laws. In particular I do not want to see any compromise on free movement of people, no compromise on the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice over UK affairs and no compromise on the UK’s ability to form trading agreements with whomsoever it pleases. The maximum price that will be paid for that right is to revert to the position held by the other 160 or so independent nations who are not EU members. Many of them manage to get by quite successfully without EU membership or influence and so will the UK.