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Holocaust As Entertainment?
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on a Russian celebrity reality skating show, Tatyana Navka and her partner dance a holocaust-themed routine:-
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Tasteless in the extreme, or an inspired raising of awareness? and which celebrity or politico might get away with this on a UK primetime Saturday evening reality show?
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Tasteless in the extreme, or an inspired raising of awareness? and which celebrity or politico might get away with this on a UK primetime Saturday evening reality show?
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//Its a complete mystery to me why a few people here on AB still continue to champion Putin and Russia over its war crimes in Syria ! //
see my post of 21h18 last night. I have not championed Putin, Russia or the Syrian government of President Assad; I have described the bombing as "reprehensible".
I merely pointed out - as I will again now - that the way to draw attention to your cause is not to hide it in a thread about the Holocaust, but to start your own thread.
see my post of 21h18 last night. I have not championed Putin, Russia or the Syrian government of President Assad; I have described the bombing as "reprehensible".
I merely pointed out - as I will again now - that the way to draw attention to your cause is not to hide it in a thread about the Holocaust, but to start your own thread.
" You tell us on practically a daily basis that hospitals in Syria are being bombed, but as someone observed yesterday, they must have an awful lot of hospitals there"
Not now, it would seem.
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Not now, it would seem.
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Entertainment is whatever people deem is entertaining, I don;t believe it can be generalised. This seems and feels in very poor taste but it's not the first or last time we'll see that somewhere around the globe.
Schindlers List - I'd describe that as educational, it taught a generation what was going on in the 30/40s in a medai they could understand, not everyone can glean the necessary information from books and studying history. I didn't come out of the cinema feeling "entertained" after watching the Schindlers List.
The same goes for much of the "Holocaust" cinema, none of them trivialise the Holocaust, if they did that would change the scenario.
Schindlers List - I'd describe that as educational, it taught a generation what was going on in the 30/40s in a medai they could understand, not everyone can glean the necessary information from books and studying history. I didn't come out of the cinema feeling "entertained" after watching the Schindlers List.
The same goes for much of the "Holocaust" cinema, none of them trivialise the Holocaust, if they did that would change the scenario.
Россия-1's just announced details of its New Year's Day schedule:
9am: Uncle Vlad's Christmas Presents -
Old "Dead Morose" himself "drops in" on a Children's Hospital in E Aleppo to give out presents to the patients: there won't be a dry eye in the house, and possibly not even an unmelted lung either, as the excited youngsters open the little packages their loving uncle has brought for them.
12pm: Film "Rink Time for Hitler" starring one of Russia's most glamorous couples Dmitry Peskov and his lovely wife, and performers from the "Holocaust on Ice" theatre.
14.30: Pantomime. "Humpty Trumpty" - with a wall and a wicked witch. But Humpty triumphs in the end. Hoora!
17.00: The President addresses the nation, from under the Missiletoe
18.00: Film: How the West Was Won ...
9am: Uncle Vlad's Christmas Presents -
Old "Dead Morose" himself "drops in" on a Children's Hospital in E Aleppo to give out presents to the patients: there won't be a dry eye in the house, and possibly not even an unmelted lung either, as the excited youngsters open the little packages their loving uncle has brought for them.
12pm: Film "Rink Time for Hitler" starring one of Russia's most glamorous couples Dmitry Peskov and his lovely wife, and performers from the "Holocaust on Ice" theatre.
14.30: Pantomime. "Humpty Trumpty" - with a wall and a wicked witch. But Humpty triumphs in the end. Hoora!
17.00: The President addresses the nation, from under the Missiletoe
18.00: Film: How the West Was Won ...
// It's a strange way to 'raise awareness' of the holocaust.
Not a lot of dancing to music was done in the camps I suspect.//
itchy ya narty bye !
get to wiki and read about Fania Fenelon - played in the orchestra at a Death Camp. Vanessa Redgrave starts in the film ( or entertainment hem hem ) in the film -= Playing for time. Orchestra played to incomers to calm them on their way to the gas chambers
so violent that I nearly turned it off when broadcast 1980
as I didnt think the Holocaust was suitable subject for entertainment
( yeah yeah I know film as fact but it is a start )
I do the same with tee vee drama themed with child abuse
( not suitable subject for drayma or entertainmant)
I am an old softy I know
Mushie - as an anthro potoblist - Joe Corrie has just burnt 5m quids worth of memorabilia to stop Punk being commemorated
" not conforming then (punk culture) in 1980 was conformity in another guise ... " he protested. Joe is the awful Malcom McLaren's son. My Dad followed Dart's views in that in the sixties and caused chaos in the classroom. As we know such outside-the-box thinking becomes standard conventional accepted thinking ten years later. on teevee today
Not a lot of dancing to music was done in the camps I suspect.//
itchy ya narty bye !
get to wiki and read about Fania Fenelon - played in the orchestra at a Death Camp. Vanessa Redgrave starts in the film ( or entertainment hem hem ) in the film -= Playing for time. Orchestra played to incomers to calm them on their way to the gas chambers
so violent that I nearly turned it off when broadcast 1980
as I didnt think the Holocaust was suitable subject for entertainment
( yeah yeah I know film as fact but it is a start )
I do the same with tee vee drama themed with child abuse
( not suitable subject for drayma or entertainmant)
I am an old softy I know
Mushie - as an anthro potoblist - Joe Corrie has just burnt 5m quids worth of memorabilia to stop Punk being commemorated
" not conforming then (punk culture) in 1980 was conformity in another guise ... " he protested. Joe is the awful Malcom McLaren's son. My Dad followed Dart's views in that in the sixties and caused chaos in the classroom. As we know such outside-the-box thinking becomes standard conventional accepted thinking ten years later. on teevee today
//As we know such outside-the-box thinking becomes standard conventional accepted thinking ten years later.//
that's very true - and indeed it happens a great deal quicker in certain performing meeja - I mean, if you could go back in time to the oxford road show and tell Ben Elton he'd be a pillar of the establishment by the turn of the century, would he have believed you?
that's very true - and indeed it happens a great deal quicker in certain performing meeja - I mean, if you could go back in time to the oxford road show and tell Ben Elton he'd be a pillar of the establishment by the turn of the century, would he have believed you?
I think Peter the difference is that all those things are art about the holocaust and therefore if you class all art as 'entertainment' then that's what it is.
Whereas the Mrs Peskov thing is purely derivative. A sentimental tribute to a film about a serious subject. Done, just for good measure, in the 'kit'. I would not dream of condemning it, it it just seems an extraordinary think to do. 'Raising awareness of the holocaust' my •••• I'd say. She likes the song fair enough, but its the props.
Whereas the Mrs Peskov thing is purely derivative. A sentimental tribute to a film about a serious subject. Done, just for good measure, in the 'kit'. I would not dream of condemning it, it it just seems an extraordinary think to do. 'Raising awareness of the holocaust' my •••• I'd say. She likes the song fair enough, but its the props.
Khandro - //If you can make films about it, write books, poems and plays, make memorials, sculptures, symphonies and operas, why can you not dance on ice to it. The questions you should ask, is was it good, and did it have significance? //
For precisely the reason I outlined in my post.
Does the medium used, and the execution, ensure that the meaning is clear? Without clear meaning, any art is pointless, and I believe that in this case, the medium is inappropriate for the message, and as a result, the message fails to be delivered with the clarity, and dignity that the subject matter deserves.
For precisely the reason I outlined in my post.
Does the medium used, and the execution, ensure that the meaning is clear? Without clear meaning, any art is pointless, and I believe that in this case, the medium is inappropriate for the message, and as a result, the message fails to be delivered with the clarity, and dignity that the subject matter deserves.
Before we get carried away with the aesthetic intricacies of our personal understanding of what various art forms should, do, or might portray, I think it’s important to remember that this wasn’t presented as a dramatic piece of theatre, but as what appears to be a performance designed to entertain the viewers of Russia’s version of Strictly – albeit on ice. In that context, it was in very poor taste.
ichkeria - //Some things Andy are too silly even to be worthy of condemning. I dare say this lady meant well. Thing is, it probably works on Russian TV in a strange way, in the state it's in now //
Thanks for your explanation - your original post read as though you would not condemn it either because you supported it, or you thought your condemnation was not valid, which is why I queried your position.
Thanks for your explanation - your original post read as though you would not condemn it either because you supported it, or you thought your condemnation was not valid, which is why I queried your position.
