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New Ukip Leader Calls For A Uk Burqa Ban.
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/// You have to look at the other issues surrounding security, because whether we like it or not we are the most watched people in the world. There’s more CCTV in Britain per head than anywhere else on the planet. And for CCTV to be effective you need to see people’s
faces.” ///
Must admit that he has a point.
/// You have to look at the other issues surrounding security, because whether we like it or not we are the most watched people in the world. There’s more CCTV in Britain per head than anywhere else on the planet. And for CCTV to be effective you need to see people’s
faces.” ///
Must admit that he has a point.
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andy-hughes, //If it is abhorrent that they supposedly try and force us to live the way they do, why is it not equally abhorrent when we want to do the same to them? //
Because they've chosen to live within a different culture. It's not for the host country to change its culture to accommodate others.
Because they've chosen to live within a different culture. It's not for the host country to change its culture to accommodate others.
Naomi - //andy-hughes, //If it is abhorrent that they supposedly try and force us to live the way they do, why is it not equally abhorrent when we want to do the same to them? //
Because they've chosen to live within a different culture. It's not for the host country to change its culture to accommodate others. //
That is not the point I made.
My point was, I hear every day about how Islam is 'taking over the world' and trying to force us to live as they do, but when Muslims come here, we appear to think it is acceptable to force them to live as we do.
I see a level of hypocrisy there, that is the observation I am making.
The notion of banning a burka is nothing to do with high-horse notions about objecting to subjugation at all.
I would have more time for the 'identity' argument, at least that does not pretend to be morally superior about women's' rights.
When we still have half-naked women every day in our national papers, and sexuality used to promote everything from perfume to pizzas, we do not hold the moral high ground on respecting women - far from it.
Because they've chosen to live within a different culture. It's not for the host country to change its culture to accommodate others. //
That is not the point I made.
My point was, I hear every day about how Islam is 'taking over the world' and trying to force us to live as they do, but when Muslims come here, we appear to think it is acceptable to force them to live as we do.
I see a level of hypocrisy there, that is the observation I am making.
The notion of banning a burka is nothing to do with high-horse notions about objecting to subjugation at all.
I would have more time for the 'identity' argument, at least that does not pretend to be morally superior about women's' rights.
When we still have half-naked women every day in our national papers, and sexuality used to promote everything from perfume to pizzas, we do not hold the moral high ground on respecting women - far from it.
andy-hughes, //When we still have half-naked women every day in our national papers, and sexuality used to promote everything from perfume to pizzas, we do not hold the moral high ground on respecting women//
That's a false argument. Women who work in the advertising industry in the west choose to do what they do. They are at liberty to say 'no'.
That's a false argument. Women who work in the advertising industry in the west choose to do what they do. They are at liberty to say 'no'.
“But what we should remember is that just because we see them as wrong, does not mean that other cultures share our views and values, or should have our views and values forced upon them against their will. “
Certainly not, Andy. But they should reside elsewhere where their views and values are more acceptable.
“If it is abhorrent that they supposedly try and force us to live the way they do, why is it not equally abhorrent when we want to do the same to them?”
Because Islam is not part of the mainstream culture of Western Europe and many of its teachings, attitudes and culture are abhorrent to the majority of people who already reside there. Europeans spent almost 800 years evicting Islam from the continent for very good reasons (which may not be the same as today but which were equally valid at the time). Now it has been imported back over a relatively short period. Its values do not concur with those of the West and to try to assimilate the two is a failing of the “multicultural” experiment. If any other group expressed attitudes and behaviour towards women and gay people that is demonstrated by followers of Islam there would be cries of horror and disgust. And that’s why it has no place here.
Certainly not, Andy. But they should reside elsewhere where their views and values are more acceptable.
“If it is abhorrent that they supposedly try and force us to live the way they do, why is it not equally abhorrent when we want to do the same to them?”
Because Islam is not part of the mainstream culture of Western Europe and many of its teachings, attitudes and culture are abhorrent to the majority of people who already reside there. Europeans spent almost 800 years evicting Islam from the continent for very good reasons (which may not be the same as today but which were equally valid at the time). Now it has been imported back over a relatively short period. Its values do not concur with those of the West and to try to assimilate the two is a failing of the “multicultural” experiment. If any other group expressed attitudes and behaviour towards women and gay people that is demonstrated by followers of Islam there would be cries of horror and disgust. And that’s why it has no place here.
//If it is abhorrent that they supposedly try and force us to live the way they do, why is it not equally abhorrent when we want to do the same to them?//
I don't want to force THEM to live the way WE do. Because:
A. I'm a mysogynist, therefore I'm all in favour of Muslim women being forced to wear the burqa, being stoned for adultery, and being forced to marry their rapists (anyone clock Erdogan's latest attempt to get more Sharia on to the Turkish statute book?). Of course I have one simple proviso - do it in Muslim countries, not Western ones.
B. I'm a homophobe, therefore I'm all in favour of gays being stoned, hanged from cranes or lashed. Of course I have one simple proviso - do it in Muslim countries, not Western ones.
C? No I won't go on - it will become tedious for me and my readers (if any).
PS: I hate women and gays, that's the bloke I am. I don't give a damn what Muslims do in their own countries and who suffers under Sharia. But why don't people who are PRO-gay and PRO-women care what's going on in Muslim countries? And why do they want it here?
I don't want to force THEM to live the way WE do. Because:
A. I'm a mysogynist, therefore I'm all in favour of Muslim women being forced to wear the burqa, being stoned for adultery, and being forced to marry their rapists (anyone clock Erdogan's latest attempt to get more Sharia on to the Turkish statute book?). Of course I have one simple proviso - do it in Muslim countries, not Western ones.
B. I'm a homophobe, therefore I'm all in favour of gays being stoned, hanged from cranes or lashed. Of course I have one simple proviso - do it in Muslim countries, not Western ones.
C? No I won't go on - it will become tedious for me and my readers (if any).
PS: I hate women and gays, that's the bloke I am. I don't give a damn what Muslims do in their own countries and who suffers under Sharia. But why don't people who are PRO-gay and PRO-women care what's going on in Muslim countries? And why do they want it here?
New Judge - //Certainly not, Andy. But they should reside elsewhere where their views and values are more acceptable. //
That sounds like a seriously intolerant and right-wing viewpoint - please feel free to contradict me if I have misunderstood what you are saying.
The remainder of your point is a wider issue, which is not the point of this debate - we are talking burka bans, not the downside of Islam in general, just this one cultural and religious aspect of it, so I am not minded to get sidetracked.
That sounds like a seriously intolerant and right-wing viewpoint - please feel free to contradict me if I have misunderstood what you are saying.
The remainder of your point is a wider issue, which is not the point of this debate - we are talking burka bans, not the downside of Islam in general, just this one cultural and religious aspect of it, so I am not minded to get sidetracked.
v_e, //anyone clock Erdogan's latest attempt to get more Sharia on to the Turkish statute book?//
Yes. I initiated a thread about his initiative to exonerate rapists who marry their victims.
http://
Unsurprisingly the subject engendered little criticism from ABers. Just eleven posts in total.
Yes. I initiated a thread about his initiative to exonerate rapists who marry their victims.
http://
Unsurprisingly the subject engendered little criticism from ABers. Just eleven posts in total.
fiction-factory - //I know how I would react if one of your family got hit by an idiot wearing this mask- the same as I would feel if one of my family was hit by anyone if the driver was at fault for driving unsafely/dangerously //
Indeed - but since there is a far greater chance of your relative or mine, being hit by a drunk driver, shall we ban alcohol while we're being all safety-conscious?
Indeed - but since there is a far greater chance of your relative or mine, being hit by a drunk driver, shall we ban alcohol while we're being all safety-conscious?
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