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Why does the EU sit idly by and watch it's borders invaded by the modern day Vandals? Surely it is time to accept that their disastrous border policy is hopeless before the inevitable bloodshed ensues.
Why does the EU sit idly by and watch it's borders invaded by the modern day Vandals? Surely it is time to accept that their disastrous border policy is hopeless before the inevitable bloodshed ensues.
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At the risk of trivialising an incredibly complex issue, I guess I'm basically saying that we should intervene and do it properly this time.
At the very least, what I@m saying is that the approach "let the barstads die" just ends up with a *lot* of dead people, and the general attempts to cross are unlikely to stop as a result. You have to look at why people are leaving, not just where they head to.
At the very least, what I@m saying is that the approach "let the barstads die" just ends up with a *lot* of dead people, and the general attempts to cross are unlikely to stop as a result. You have to look at why people are leaving, not just where they head to.
How about Saudi Arabia taking all the refugees. They have an air conditioned tented city that can houses 3 million people at Mina. It is empty for 360 days a year. It lies in a 20 sq km valley and is deserted for the majority of the time. Bet the Saudis would find out their ages and where they came from.
//So is it all being orchestrated by a group of leading Muslims somewhere, Khandro//
ff have a look into Hijra it is the Arabic word for "migration", used to besiege new territories, as the Islamic prophet Muhammad and his followers did when they besieged Medina in the year 622, and the same way 56 nations have become Islamic now it is Europe's turn, and Spain in particular. They will have Spain surrounded soon, then you will see what mass migration really can do.
ff have a look into Hijra it is the Arabic word for "migration", used to besiege new territories, as the Islamic prophet Muhammad and his followers did when they besieged Medina in the year 622, and the same way 56 nations have become Islamic now it is Europe's turn, and Spain in particular. They will have Spain surrounded soon, then you will see what mass migration really can do.
So, Togo, are the migrants secret agents rather than economic migrants or people escaping war zones? Are they all complicit in this, coming here pretending to be economic migrants/refugees with the real intention of taking over Europe. Or are they being forced to get in dodgy dinghys by Muslim leaders and forced to take over areas under some sort of threat from their controllers? Maybe it's a bit of each.
They may leave their own country due to unrest or whatever, and it is unclear what intervention helps and is justifiable so if will be difficult to solve. However having moved across the border to a neighbouring state, they leave there because they want a better life and getting into Europe is like winning life's jackpot for them, so they risk it. That's why they leave for Europe.
It's that kind of economic migration we need to prevent as we can not be the end point for all the world's less advantaged. No country can maintain a good level of living for it's citizens if it is forever getting swamped by incomers. (Likewise they can't if the birthrate isn't out of control.)
Nations need to look after their own interests so that they remain stable, preferably improving, and yet help out other human beings where they can; but not be open house. It is this border control that is vital. But at the same time one needs to stumble on a solution to the cause of displacement in the first place.
It's that kind of economic migration we need to prevent as we can not be the end point for all the world's less advantaged. No country can maintain a good level of living for it's citizens if it is forever getting swamped by incomers. (Likewise they can't if the birthrate isn't out of control.)
Nations need to look after their own interests so that they remain stable, preferably improving, and yet help out other human beings where they can; but not be open house. It is this border control that is vital. But at the same time one needs to stumble on a solution to the cause of displacement in the first place.
...they can't if the birthrate is out of control...
Like I %"$^"&^ typed !
And thanks a bundle to the idiot at the power station that turned off the power for the area a few seconds after I posted and saw the edit I needed to make. I can not express how pleased I was that everything went down at that point. Now I will go through the house and see what needs resetting. It is the second time it has happened recently. The last time I was away for a few days and had turned off the heating, but it appears it reset itself to on twice a day after the power cycle :-(
Like I %"$^"&^ typed !
And thanks a bundle to the idiot at the power station that turned off the power for the area a few seconds after I posted and saw the edit I needed to make. I can not express how pleased I was that everything went down at that point. Now I will go through the house and see what needs resetting. It is the second time it has happened recently. The last time I was away for a few days and had turned off the heating, but it appears it reset itself to on twice a day after the power cycle :-(
//Well, gee, there's nothing like portraying desperate people as enemies that will turn into a military invasion force to shield yourself from the human tragedy that is many hundreds of children drowning//@jim360
I don't see much evidence of the Muslim nations doing the same handwringing and aaahhhing. Do You?
ff @ 9:35 You cannot hide the reality behind flippancy Fiction. The fact is that the migration of millions of Muslims is under way, and right now the only people who appear to be universally abhorred by the images presented to them on a daily basis are the people being invaded.Neither Saudi Arabia,Kuwait, Qatar and United Arab Emirates, four of the wealthiest nations on Earth and Muslim to boot, have taken any "refugees" or displaced migrants. Why not................perhaps they are pleased to see millions of Muslim brothers invading the corrupt infidel Europeans. As I advised you to, think Hijra.
I don't see much evidence of the Muslim nations doing the same handwringing and aaahhhing. Do You?
ff @ 9:35 You cannot hide the reality behind flippancy Fiction. The fact is that the migration of millions of Muslims is under way, and right now the only people who appear to be universally abhorred by the images presented to them on a daily basis are the people being invaded.Neither Saudi Arabia,Kuwait, Qatar and United Arab Emirates, four of the wealthiest nations on Earth and Muslim to boot, have taken any "refugees" or displaced migrants. Why not................perhaps they are pleased to see millions of Muslim brothers invading the corrupt infidel Europeans. As I advised you to, think Hijra.
//Togo: I don't see other countries' lack of compassion as an excuse for being equally cynical in kind. //
Errr jim, have we not tried the sympathetic caring sharing approach?? Guess what, there are even more heading our way, and on it will go. The more we take in the more will come, but you know that really don't you. Consider this, if our accommodation of millions of refugees isn't solving the problem perhaps it's causing it. The old adage, if you aren't part of the solution you are part of the problem was never more apt. Then again there is no self appointed virtue t shirt to be claimed if one takes the pragmatic common sense approach. What is it about the psyche of the pious claimants of the moral higher ground that makes them so needy and desperate for that self congratulatory glow.
Errr jim, have we not tried the sympathetic caring sharing approach?? Guess what, there are even more heading our way, and on it will go. The more we take in the more will come, but you know that really don't you. Consider this, if our accommodation of millions of refugees isn't solving the problem perhaps it's causing it. The old adage, if you aren't part of the solution you are part of the problem was never more apt. Then again there is no self appointed virtue t shirt to be claimed if one takes the pragmatic common sense approach. What is it about the psyche of the pious claimants of the moral higher ground that makes them so needy and desperate for that self congratulatory glow.
jim; The problems of Africa and Asia should not be the problems of Europe, both those continents have enormous wealth and resources. The Saudis alone have not taken in one single refugee, there stated offer of help to the problem is to provide the money to build 200 mosques in the UK and a similar amount in Germany and they continue to provide weapons - which we and the US sell to them, - that continue the conflicts and exacerbate the problem.
In the 30's Germany elected the wee bloke with a funny tache and a dodgy haircut as chancellor. Their philosophy and edicts began to trancend Germany and in 1938 they forced the Cezchs ceded the Suddetenland creating a small influx of refugees to other states, later that year the anschluss with Austria started the mass migrations of the Jews and other non aryan fgroups in to the rest of Europe and other countries. What did we do? We appeased them, we let them go unchecked which in the end led to WW2.
At the end of the cold war Yugoslavia imploded creating a limited refugee issue with Muslim Bosniaks, orthodox Serbs and Catholic Croats generating various stages of ethnic cleansing within their own nations. This was yet another religious conflict with created mass exoduses from historic homelands, again we appeased until it became too late to prevent the conflict that ensued.
Guess what; The western world and Europe in particular is appeasing the Middle east yet again, Shengen means we can't prevent the infux of refugees from the region coming in through southern Europe and moving north.
I don't know what the solution is, I'm not certain all out military intervention is the answer but the west must do something before it's too late. I'm not as blood thirsty as perhaps TTT's OP suggests we should be but something has to be done and done soon.
Personally, I don't mind what colour you are, what creed, nationality or religion someone is but if you come to our country please adapt, please understand what our laws and customs are and respect them.
At the end of the cold war Yugoslavia imploded creating a limited refugee issue with Muslim Bosniaks, orthodox Serbs and Catholic Croats generating various stages of ethnic cleansing within their own nations. This was yet another religious conflict with created mass exoduses from historic homelands, again we appeased until it became too late to prevent the conflict that ensued.
Guess what; The western world and Europe in particular is appeasing the Middle east yet again, Shengen means we can't prevent the infux of refugees from the region coming in through southern Europe and moving north.
I don't know what the solution is, I'm not certain all out military intervention is the answer but the west must do something before it's too late. I'm not as blood thirsty as perhaps TTT's OP suggests we should be but something has to be done and done soon.
Personally, I don't mind what colour you are, what creed, nationality or religion someone is but if you come to our country please adapt, please understand what our laws and customs are and respect them.
I think you might be missing the point of what I'm saying, Togo, which is that we can't or shouldn't ignore what's going on in the parts of the world these people are coming from. This remains true whatever we do about the people trying to cross the Mediterranean to get here. Just taking them in unconditionally, without addressing the root causes for their attempts to get here, is as mistaken an approach as not taking them in without addressing the root causes for their attempts to get here.
On the other hand, one is clearly more compassionate than the other, and I'd take compassion, however foolish it may be in the long run, over coldly leaving many to die drowning in the sea any day. The current approach is unsustainable though, for sure.
On the other hand, one is clearly more compassionate than the other, and I'd take compassion, however foolish it may be in the long run, over coldly leaving many to die drowning in the sea any day. The current approach is unsustainable though, for sure.
Exactly jim. In you own round about way you make my point. You of all people know that it is possible to make a plus from two minuses. However we cannot make a right out of two wrongs. We can address one wrong, with a halt to this mass immigration that is an invasion in disguise. That would leave only one wrong to deal with and we let the Muslims put that right however they see fit. As it is we volunteer, by proxy, to take the blame for their problems, and then the fallout and even more disapproval with a clumsy virtue signalling "solution". A solution that is guaranteed to bring bloodshed and armed conflict onto the streets of Europe.
So where we have intervened you diss us and then appear to slate us where we have not been involved. Right ho.
Turn them back (yes including women and children since they are clearly used to get their way), it is simple. No benefits or housing for any migrants across Europe too. Once word is out it will stop.
Turn them back (yes including women and children since they are clearly used to get their way), it is simple. No benefits or housing for any migrants across Europe too. Once word is out it will stop.
Thank you, Khandro, for pointing out how blinkered I am. I find it difficult to take your opinion seriously though on these matters given that you recently referred to Muslim W***ers. I am sure some will welcome you back though.
I do agree a tougher approach is needed in turning boats back much closer to Libya and not providing a mid-sea/coastal rescue service, a much more rigourous approach to assessing refugees and an end to free movement in Europe. However if it is true as some claim here that we are being invaded by millions of Muslims who are taking over Europe then I think TTT's suggestion of towing back some boats and infiltrating gangs will help but won't make a huge difference- something like sterilisation of large numbers of Muslims already here or compulsory repatriation would be needed to tackle that perceived problem.
I do agree a tougher approach is needed in turning boats back much closer to Libya and not providing a mid-sea/coastal rescue service, a much more rigourous approach to assessing refugees and an end to free movement in Europe. However if it is true as some claim here that we are being invaded by millions of Muslims who are taking over Europe then I think TTT's suggestion of towing back some boats and infiltrating gangs will help but won't make a huge difference- something like sterilisation of large numbers of Muslims already here or compulsory repatriation would be needed to tackle that perceived problem.
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