Bristol Tipper Crash

[bednobs]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38404875
saw this on the news earlier and just felt hugely sorry for the driver.
do you think there will be prison sentences attached to the guilty verdicts?

[Buenchico]

From your own link:

Remanding them in custody, the judge Mr Justice Langstaff said: "It has to be acknowledged that Mr Gordon and Mr Wood have turned up every day for their trial, but the offences they have been convicted of would attract substantial prison terms, so it seems to me that it would be wrong not to start serving those terms now."

[sunny-dave]

"Remanding them in custody, the judge Mr Justice Langstaff said: "It has to be acknowledged that Mr Gordon and Mr Wood have turned up every day for their trial, but the offences they have been convicted of would attract substantial prison terms, so it seems to me that it would be wrong not to start serving those terms now."

They will be sentenced on 27 January.

[bednobs]

sorry i seem to have missed out "long" in my post. I dont get why people should be commended for turning up - don't they have to?

[Jackdaw33]

Haven't read this in detail but first impressions are that the driver was sent out in a death trap. Glad he's been cleared.

[starone]

I feel vastly sorry for the driver because he will never be able to forget - the poor devil will remember it and be haunted by it for all of his life - those men should be sentenced for the torture they have given him leave alone all the rest of the crimes they have committed.

[New Judge]

“sorry i seem to have missed out "long" in my post. I dont get why people should be commended for turning up - don't they have to?”

Yes they do – assuming they have been bailed, which they would have been in this case. The judge was probably responding to representations from the defendants’ advocates who were trying to secure bail until sentencing (especially bearing in mind the time of year). They probably said that since their clients had not absconded during the trial there was nothing to suggest they would do so now. (Risk of absconding is one of the principle reasons for denying bail). However, this is post conviction and those considerations are not quite the same. The judge has stated that a lengthy custodial sentence was a certainty and it should begin now.

[sunny-dave]

Yes - glad the driver was cleared - pressured to take out a vehicle the owner must have known was unsafe.

I agree that the defendants 'have to turn up' - but some have been known to disappear when it's obvious their cause is lost - the judge was (I think) just explaining why he had given bail before, but was revoking it now.

[jno]

the driver was cleared, the others will be getting jail. They're not commended for turning up; it was a question of whether to give them bail while awaiting sentence - they wouldn't get it if they were thought likely to abscond. The judge thinks they won't but he's starting the sentence now anyway. They'll miss Christmas at home.

[TWR]

Sunny, you would not believe what goes on in transport regards taking a HGV out with defects, in some cases "You either take it out OR???

[sddsddean]

Agree with TWR. With respect, a lot of you have no idea how pressured drivers can be to take a truck out. I'm glad I'm an owner/driver and do most of my own maintenance. Its also an 8 wheel tipper (like the one in the case), so I can directly relate to it. First thing I do after pulling out of the yard in the morning is hit the brakes. Luckily with a tipper, each delivery you can do a quick visual check over the truck when the body is up. I've seen guys drive off with an air brake chamber hanging off the air pipes...al the mounting bolts sheared! Makes you wonder.

[bhg481]

sddsddean //First thing I do after pulling out of the yard in the morning is hit the brakes. // That should be the first thing you do BEFORE pulling out of the yard. Press the brake pedal immediately after you've started the vehicle - OK, you aren't moving but any deficiencies due to lack of fluid etc will show up before you start to move.

[TWR]

Sdd, I've had an owner trying to send me out with a cracked Chassis on the trailer, a defective tyre, on tipper work the swing support on the top of the tailboard Cracked ( You know what I mean) Taco not right, a couple of wheel nut snapped off, I think I can regard myself as a safe drive, in all of these cases I refused, If I got the boot I would have "Taken them"

[murraymints]

responsibility for ensuring the vehicle was safe lay with the owner and maintenance team... the poor driver was completely in the dark and did his best to avoid a collision , but it was hopeless....the two responsible will most certainly go to prison..rightly so

[TWR]

Bhj, they are air brakes not fluid.

[TWR]

For your information Bhj, if the brakes has an Air defect the HGV will not pull away, you need to build the air up before the brakes unlock.

[Peter Pedant]

not so much a crash
as deliberate mairder of a little child ....

sorry going into 3T-AB mode early to day

manslaughter convictions always bring less sentences
as it has been shown during the case they didnt intend harm at the time
but anyone with a brain would have foreseen .... ( running a recognisable danger even if he didnt recognise it)

Prison sentences ? yeah the judge has already said he is gonna send them down dooby do down down ( sorry back in 3T mode) - I cant imagine more than 6 years

[bhg481]

TWR - good safety feature; I don't know anything about air brakes. The principle applies to car drivers though. In my automatic I have to put my foot on the brake (although not hard) before it will start or allow me to engage a gear.

[Peter Pedant]

// (Risk of absconding is one of the principle reasons for denying bail). //

s1 of the Bail Act I think
I dont recommend reading it (the Act) - it isnt a very good read ....
Good chapter in Emmins on it which I also dont recommend

[TWR]

The slightest leak on an Air System Bhj will be known by the driver by a warning in his / her cab, that truck had "brake fade" ( With respect to that young driver) continuous use of the brakes on a sever down hill decent loaded, that HGV has what they call an Exhaust brake, this device is a flap within the Manifold that chokes the engine by not allowing the exhaust gases to escape, with that the correct gears should have been used to assist braking, I'd seen on the news the route that the truck had taken, looking at the situation & knowing the driver was losing the ability to stop, to an experienced driver would have gone for the first available wall, I stress, an experiened driver, this lad had only just started the job, this is where the HGV Test is a load of BULL ***, they are taken out on an empty HGV with 32 tonns in the tipper, the load pushes the truck as this driver found out, this is something that will affect his life & I doubt if he will ever drive a HGV again.

[bhg481]

I assume that the light you refer to, TWR, is the one that the vehicle owner was telling the driver not to tell the police about. Incidentally, that hill is VERY steep (makes the old Sawley Brow look like a gentle slope); you are the same generation as me and go back to the days when cars had drum brakes and needed use of the gears to avoid fade on hills. That doesn't seem to be the case with modern cars with disc brakes and so it possibly is not in the world model of younger drivers. Having said that, I've no experience at all of driving lorries and no knowledge of the driving test for them.