Carol Dambuster

[weecalf]

Carol ex countdown wants no demands a knighthood for last dambuster will this help or hinder his chances ,given that he did not do it for the glory but for the nations cause .

[jno]

lots of people did things for their nation and a lot died for it. I don't know that there's any special reason to dish out knighthoods just for surviving another 70 years.

[douglas9401]

Some might say that having former Rear Of The Year winner and human foghorn Vorders in your corner was a handicap.

[ToraToraTora]

Well he's more deserving of one than most but not sure why Vorderperson has taken up the case though.

[jourdain2]

I've been trying for hours to answer this, but the internet had other ideas (I even dropped the laptop on the floor to try to jolt it).

I signed this petition earlier today in recognition of all the men who took part in the Dambusters operation. 2/3rds of them died - no-one knew if they would succeed when they took off or if they would return alive. It was nasty, but decisive in winning WW2.

Without their courage and skill, all the honours winners this time might never have had the chance, in fact many might not ever have been allowed to be born. About time that someone was honoured on their behalf - and he's the last one alive..

[Mamyalynne]

https://www.change.org/p/give-britain-s-last-surviving-dambuster-hero-a-knighthood

[Zacs-Master]

Carol Dambuster......is that the lady with the bouncing bum?

[youngmafbog]

No jno I suppose you would be far happier with all your luvvie champagne socialist mates getting them?

[Berniecuddles2]

perhaps he should played tennis!

[bhg481]

He was a WAR hero, a REAL hero and he got REAL medals. A knighthood is a civilian honour. He may well deserve one for other things he has done but it seems a little unfair to him to compare his deeds with those which merit civilian honours.

[aelmpvw]

//perhaps he should played tennis!//
or write ditties like 'dedicated follower of fashion'

[dannyk13]

Bhg, Did not a certain 'bomber' Harris receive a knighthood?

[bhg481]

danny - yes, he was, it seems. Guy Gibson didn't, though. I feel it's not quite right to award one to Johnny Johnson just for being the last surviving British member of the sortie, although I wouldn't object if he were offered one. (He says he'll accept it if he is). I think his war medals are far higher-value rewards for what he did for our country than a civil award which the likes of bankers and civil servants seem to qualify for.

[naomi24]

In his declining years it would be rather nice – and fitting - to publicly recognise his invaluable contribution. What memories he must have.

[andy-hughes]

bhg481 - // ... a REAL hero ... //

It is easy to get misty-eyed and emotional when thinking about people who served in the war.

But we should respect their perspective, that they did what needed to be done, without special and specific acts of courage being involved.

It denigrates the notion of a 'hero' to bandy the term about for people who were like millions of others, and dealt with their circumstances to the best of their ability.

They don't want to be seen as 'heroes' - and we should respect that.

[dannyk13]

Andy ///without special and specific acts of courage being involved//
I would dispute that,given that the pilots had to fly at near ground level in order to offload the bombs making them easy targets for the German anti-aircraft crews.

[andy-hughes]

danny - the difficulty is, if we regard everyone as a 'hero', then no-one is a hero.

We have to ensure that we separate specific acts of conscious courage, from standard procedures of warfare which are carried out routinely by the personnel involved.

[naomi24]

andy-hughes, you're making several unfounded assumptions there.

//they did what needed to be done, without special and specific acts of courage being involved. //

I think what they did was pretty courageous. I'd have been terrified - and I'm guessing you would too.

[anotheoldgit]

andy-hughes

/// It is easy to get misty-eyed and emotional when thinking about people who served in the war. ///

/// But we should respect their perspective, that they did what needed to be done, without special and specific acts of courage being involved. ///

I know that you are not old enough to have lived through WW2, but surely you must have read of extreme acts of courage that took place during those horrific six years.

[andy-hughes]

Absolutely - I make no bones about that.

But my point is that millions of people did things like that every single day, and our eternal gratitude is due to them for it.

But that does not make them 'heroes' in the accepted sense of the term, and that is my point.

As with any honour - and the New Year's Honours List proves it - if you expand an award's recipients, you demean its meaning and relevance.

So if we are going to award recognition to people who fought in the war, then we need to call them something else other than 'heroes' because that is not an appropriate adjective for what they have done.