Bexit; Brilliant Speech From 'remainer' Oliver Letwin

[Khandro]

Eloquence and common sense, would you not say?

[jourdain2]

We're busy watching the live broadcast from the House of Commons,
Khandro (fuming at an idiot SNP at the moment). Will get beck to this later. :)

[youngmafbog]

Not all remainers are self serving people who want to ignore democracy and the will of the vote.

On many things we, and the media, should be wary of the minority who shout loudest especially the keyboard warriors on social media.

[1581960]

Thanks for posting that Khandro, absolutely agree, brilliant.

[mikey4444]

Here is another brilliant speech ::::

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38813629

[douglas9401]

"On many things we, and the media, should be wary of the minority who shout loudest especially the keyboard warriors on social media."

I have to admit to a smile at that. Jeezo. :)

[1581960]

Yes Mikey4444, another brilliant speech from an eloquent speaker, but perhaps it should be pointed out that he has accepted the will of the electorate at all of the elections he refers to, whether or not he agreed with it. I rather think he should also accept the result of the referendum.

[mikey4444]

1581960....I thought Clark made a lot of sense in his speech.

We shouldn't forget that almost every political Party in the UK had a pro-EU policy, before the Ref. I would support any MP that sticks to his guns over this issue, although I think that the A50 debate will win the day for the anti-EU faction.

[naomi24]

Mikey, //I would support any MP that sticks to his guns over this issue//

Regardless of the ‘guns’ of his constituents? And there’s me thinking we elect our MPs to represent us in parliament.

[Peter Pedant]

.... and we have had a bit of luck - a judgement from the Supreme Court,

not a piece of luck - Gina Miller brought the case not by luck but with money and determination ....

..... we are not lawyers in parliament .... o dear god

[Peter Pedant]

// And there’s me thinking we elect our MPs to represent us in parliament//

yup represent - and are not delegates

so keep thinking Nigh - they have even wheeled out Ed Burke 1780 on the difference - O and they have to represent the 48% who DIDNT vote for Brexit as well

tough being an MP

[Ellipsis]

This would be notable if Oliver Letwin's judgement was highly rated, but he's well known for showing incredibly poor judgement for more than 30 years ...

[Khandro]

Ellipsis; //he's well known for showing incredibly poor judgement for more than 30 years ... //

Are you not capable of addressing what he says then?
30 years of poor judgement is quite an indictment, I wouldn't even accuse you of that. :0)

[jim360]

It's pretty obvious by now that this bill is going to pass through the Commons without too much fuss. I doubt that there are many amendments that will make it into the final Act either. Panic over from all those who feared that MPs might overturn the will of the people...

But the main thing I wanted to say was that I wonder why it is that people still have some trouble defining "respect" properly. I thought Ken Clarke's speech was pretty decent, what I heard of it. I wonder, as he does, how many of those who voted Leave would have abandoned their position and arguments had the vote gone the other way. Of course they wouldn't. And why should they? If you believe that something is the right thing to do then that belief shouldn't be abandoned just because the majority disagrees.

The referendum result was legitimate, and should be honoured, so that I absolutely think this Bill must pass. But it was a narrow result, ie almost half the country didn't want Brexit, then I hope that the shape of the country to come is formed with their views in mind as well. To do otherwise would, in fact, not be representing the will of the people at all. Theresa May's intended route appears to be a narrow and extreme interpretation of only some of the people.

But anyway. Hurry up and pass this Bill please, Parliament, without amendments and then we can hold the negotiating positions etc etc to proper scrutiny. MPs who vote against it shouldn't be branded as traitors -- after all, what do you expect the SNP to do when its constituents voted convincingly *not* to leave? -- but they should be a comfortable minority.

[mikey4444]

"If you believe that something is the right thing to do then that belief shouldn't be abandoned just because the majority disagrees"

Well said Jim !

[naomi24]

//"If you believe that something is the right thing to do then that belief shouldn't be abandoned just because the majority disagrees"

// Well said Jim !//

Well said? That surely depends upon what the disagreement entails. We elect our representatives to represent our views in parliament – and that’s what they should be doing. Mrs May was a Remainer – but unlike the MPs who are ignoring the wishes of their constituents, she’s doing absolutely the right thing in respecting the majority vote.

[Khandro]

Up to and after the result of the referendum, many remainers claimed that there wasn't enough information available, but it seems that they are now coming round to the idea that having sovereignty and not belonging to a failing, undemocratic organization is perhaps a better idea than what they first thought, and that whether Merkel or Shultz wins the Chancellorship it's going to be more of the same for the next 4 years with disastrous results for the EU and Europe.
I think if another referendum was held today, the remainers wouldn't have a cat in hells chance.

[mikey4444]

Khandro.....I can no evidence that there are hordes of Remainers changing their minds.

There may be some, but in the same breath, there may also be some Brexiteers that now think differently.

You and I may have our opinions on the subject but there is no hard evidence one way or the other.

I for one, are still firmly in the Remain camp !

[hereIam]

And I, for one, am still firmly in the leave camp.

[Zacs-Master]

Naomi, there are many many MPs who represent remain voters who are voting to implement Brexit. How do you feel about them?

[naomi24]

Zacs-Master, I was waiting for someone to ask that. In normal circumstances MPs should represent the wishes of their constituents, but this isn’t normal circumstances and in this instance democracy must prevail. The point is MPs who are voting contrary to the wishes of their constituents are also voting contrary to the will of the majority, so not only are they holding the people they are elected to represent in contempt, they’re holding democracy in contempt too. I’d be willing to bet that when they were canvassing for their seats they didn’t tell the voting public they would ignore their wishes, and democracy, when it suited them, personally, to do so.